Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

I've always been a huge F-15 fan, but Im confused about this proposed F-15 SE.

Is it planned to be used in the USAF?
Can existing F-15 airframes be converted to the SE?
Why sell the F-15 SE to other countries when we can sell F-35s?

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shabah_cactus wrote:

I've always been a huge F-15 fan, but Im confused about this proposed F-15 SE.

Is it planned to be used in the USAF?

Not as current.

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Can existing F-15 airframes be converted to the SE?

Yes.

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Why sell the F-15 SE to other countries when we can sell F-35s?

Boeing doesn't make a cent when Lockheed sells a plane.

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Boeing doesn't make a cent when Lockheed sells a plane.

Boeing builds major assemblies of the F-22. They certainly make more than a cent.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/mil ... 6c_nr.html

The F-15SE is not competing with the F-22 but the F-35 (which Boeing does not make any money on).

Who would buy the F-15SE? What's so great about it?

discofishing wrote:

Who would buy the F-15SE? What's so great about it?

Countries that might not be authorized to buy F-35s?

Taiwan comes to mind.

Taiwan will unlikely be procuring new build F-16s, let alone F-15SE. Moreover, a spiral upgradeable F-15SE could be perceived as even more capable than F-35, at least in some capacities.

On a purely cost-point case though, it would be very interesting to see how many units of each type aircraft the USAF could sustainably procure, say in FY14-FY15-FY16, with a combat procurement budget of roughly where it is today... i.e., around $3.8-$4B? (Rather than almost double this procurement amount to be budgeted, as is currently estimated and expected).

Something to realistically consider and calculate.

geogen wrote:

Taiwan will unlikely be procuring new build F-16s, let alone F-15SE. Moreover, a spiral upgradeable F-15SE could be perceived as even more capable than F-35, at least in some capacities.

On a purely cost-point case though, it would be very interesting to see how many units of each type aircraft the USAF could sustainably procure, say in FY14-FY15-FY16, with a combat procurement budget of roughly where it is today... i.e., around $3.8-$4B? (Rather than almost double this procurement amount to be budgeted, as is currently estimated and expected).

Something to realistically consider and calculate.

Even if you put identical avionics in the F-15SE, you still have a less survivable airframe, and at higher cost(both to acquire and to maintain).

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Taiwan will unlikely be procuring new build F-16s, let alone F-15SE. Moreover, a spiral upgradeable F-15SE could be perceived as even more capable than F-35, at least in some capacities.

I don't know about that. Maybe if it had F119s and the ability to supercruise it might one-up the F-35 in at least one category. Taiwan wants late block F-16s. They've got pretty much the same thing in block 20 F-16AMs. If they can't get the latest stuff, they'll probably want second hand F-16s with MLU applied to them. That's the only way I could see them inject more technology and capabilities into their AF without making a huge stink.

disco - I would concur with you that MLU applied second hand F-16s would be the best case scenario, rather than 'new build F-16'.

WW -

I would actually propose 'putting in' superior avionics/sensors and superior weapons into the F-15SE compared to F-35A. Superior Radar, RWR, EW and IRST as an example of some of the superior electronics implied.

Moreover, place a procurement order for 30 units of each aircraft per year and then you might finally be surprised to see how much more affordable such an F-15SE stopgap would cost USAF's procurement budget until a block 5.5 can be introduced to replace a prematurely killed F-22 line.

geogen wrote:

disco - I would concur with you that MLU applied second hand F-16s would be the best case scenario, rather than 'new build F-16'.

WW -

I would actually propose 'putting in' superior avionics/sensors and superior weapons into the F-15SE compared to F-35A. Superior Radar, RWR, EW and IRST as an example of some of the superior electronics implied.

Moreover, place a procurement order for 30 units of each aircraft per year and then you might finally be surprised to see how much more affordable such an F-15SE stopgap would cost USAF's procurement budget until a block 5.5 can be introduced to replace a prematurely killed F-22 line.

An SE as is, would be in excess of $100m. If you did the upgrades, that you suggest, you'd have an F-15 that costs almost as much as an F-22.

If the F-15SE is THAT advanced, would there really be a distinction between countries allowed to buy it or the F-35?

discofishing wrote:

If the F-15SE is THAT advanced, would there really be a distinction between countries allowed to buy it or the F-35?

The latest F-15s exported(which aren't as advanced as what is being suggested) are ~$100m. If you start putting all of the equipment(or even more expensive) than what the F-35 has, you'll rapidly approach F-22 prices, in a non-VLO airframe.

discofishing wrote:

I don't know about that. Maybe if it had F119s and the ability to supercruise it might one-up the F-35 in at least one category.

F-15 doesnt lack power at all. For example with two 220 engines T/W ratio (dry trust, empty F-15C) is 12.2 N/kg

F-35A ratio is 9.3 N/kg

I am not expert at all on this subject, but I really dont see why F-35A is capable for super cruise and F-15SE isnt? Maybe because of aerodynamics?