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jeffb wrote:
The S-400 uses a new type of acquisition radar which is designed to detect LO and VLO aircraft more effectively
Yeah sure, and the new AGM-88E HARM was designed to counter S-300/S-400 SAMs more effectively. Does it mean that I can feel safe in my F-16 just because I have a new HARM? Every new technology is designed to be better than the previous one. I’d be surprised if new Russian radar weren’t designed to counter new threats more effectively.
1. New S-300/S-400 radars have ranges increased by ~50% compared to previous generation radars.
2. VLO (-30/-40 dBsm) aircrafts can be detected at ~10-15% range compared to 4th gen(0/10 dBsm) aircrafts.
What does it mean? Basically it means that 5th gen (VLO) aircrafts are less vulnerable and harder to detect by modern radars than 4th gens (non-VLO) by legacy radars. It also means that 4th gens today are extremely vulnerable. New radars are too powerful, jamming them is now much harder and less effective than before (PESA, AESA SAMs).
jeffb wrote:
The S-400 "fix" has been fielded before the F-35 "problem" has which was my point about the long delayed development program reducing the advantage provided by all the new wiz-bangery.
The S-400 isn’t any fix. It’s like with my AGM-88E example. It’s not that simple to counter VLO technology. If they could manage to develop fire control radars with detection range 10 times greater than before(4000-5000km/2500-3000 miles) than yes, you could say that they found a fix. But not only this is impossible today, but this is even unimaginable.
jeffb wrote:
No AG modes for the APG-77? You sure?
IIRC they added something to APG-77(V)1 as an afterthought to show everybody “hey look, I’m not just ultra-expensive air superiority fighter! I can drop a bomb too!”
exec wrote:
My point is about matching the platform to to the task in hand and I already said that the F-35s will be able to do this but that they'll need jamming support to get close enough, the F-22s can drop off further away moving faster and get out of there quicker (and have better stealth as well) although, with point defense tech getting better even they may need jamming support at some point.
Sure, jamming is nice to have – especially when you don’t need to do it yourself (stand-off, escort jamming etc.).
The F-35 is less stealthy than the F-22, but is better suited to do A-G job. Plus the F-22 is expensive to use – it’s a high tech supercruising, air superiority fighter. You can’t use them to do everything. You can’t afford it, it’s not effective. You can’t buy 1000 B-2s and use it to bomb Taliban camps in the desert. You need a cost-effective workhorse.
jeffb wrote:
And I think that you may be making a mistake also in assuming that the VLO characteristics of the F-35 that apply in the x-band (for which they are optimised, kinda) are just as effective in the VHF band (for which they are not).
You do realize what are the limitations of the low-band radars, and why everybody still uses S, C, X bands for acquisition and fire control? |
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