Forum: F-16 Procedures

Quote:

The true story is the acft is setup up to start the CSFDR when Start 2 is enabled. It was changed for this reason, to get actual times of when the aircrew started the aircraft in case of a mishap. In start 1, the CSFDR doesn't start recording until WOW switches are disengaged (or engaged, on how you perceive the system).

Where did that "true story" come from???

You're close, Joe. The time clock for the CSFDR data starts when the main power switch is placed out of off (i.e. battery power available to the CSFDR). Unless external power is used, the recording of CSFDR Type 1 data (mishap investigation data) starts when the main generator comes on line during engine start. It's always been that way.

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I don't know what the "true story" is but we were told to use start 2 when we went to JP-8 (not JP-5 by the way) and the Dash-1 followed shortly thereafter. We were told this would reduce no-starts with the lower flash point fuel. Personally I still used start 1. My logic was this: If it doesn't start with start 2 the crew dogs are pumping with the JFS handle (I've done that so I appreciate their effort) as both bottles are shot. So I used start 1. If it didn't start I still had start 2 to try before the CC was pumpin and the second start was probably going to work better as it had at least been kicked over by Start 1. I never witnessed a change in the frequency of no-starts using start 1 with JP-8 than I saw with JP-4. I still used start 2 in cold temps as had been the case before JP-8 but we seldom had such temps at Homestead. On a hot day in S. Florida start 1 worked like a champ all the time with JP-8 even with the new antifreeze inhibiter additive.

JB

Folks - This is one fun thread! Sorry TEG 'bout the "bowed rotor" stoof!! Doh

(Every PW engine dude knows about that one!!). Cheers

Can I have my engine coin back now? Thanks

(If ya don't I'll start a thread on J75-P-19W 1st stage nozzle vane area calculation)(No-Just kidding on that one!!)

rpgrynn wrote:

(If ya don't I'll start a thread on J75-P-19W 1st stage nozzle vane area calculation)(No-Just kidding on that one!!)

I guess that would depend on the classes of your vanes; let's average them up!

Had to do that with the F100s too until the 'classless' vanes were introduced.

Cheers

TEG

TEG - Naw, not gonna happen! If the F-105/J75-P-19W came back from 'cell with its N2 off spec a bit, had just one guy back in our shop at George who did that (late '70s early '80s)(I was an AMN - Not high enough in the food chain). From what I can remember, class A were the "thin ones" up to class E "really thick" A flowed alot more than the E class. The 2J-75-6 (One picture and a ton of engeening formulas) and lots of "Nope we do the follwoing based on ...". I know the F100 procedure was much nicer!! Cheers

Now I know somebody who worked J75's is going to come up and say "That's BS...we did it like.." I'll have no problem learning sumthin old! Cheers

The funny thing about this “Start 2 thing” is you still have 100hr start 2 checks? And we start in 2 all the time?
So Varkvet read the book and when you do a start 2 check, you need to watch both bottles go down to pre-charge!
So if you don’t watch your bottles during normal launch, make sure you do so on the start 2 check!
If your pre-charge is low? Well then FIX IT!

That_Engine_Guy wrote:

rpgrynn wrote:

LOL 220 only - to check for fuel fog to avoid hot starting -- Next? Smile

Not fuel fog, but 'bowed rotor'

The 1 minute motor WAS for only second starts of the day, or it the engine was warm. People were screwing it up so bad, they made it EVERY start.

Ya, I remember the second and subsequent starts of the day for one minute motor on Pratts. {every start now} ( the first start was fine after 18%, lite her off) bottom line is … if you motor her down and make sure FTIT is below 200C before ANY start, we shouldn’t have an issue for rotor warpage? That was in the book for F-111's with P3's
I don’t make the calls, I’m a Crew Chief?
And I never got my fingers cut from Mid Span Shingling on a P3

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Start 2 anyone?