Forum: F-16 Spotting & Photography

lmao, you guys crack me up!

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I am and always will be a "B-Shopper" at heart....

I was fully "CUT" trained to be a Crew Chief and could sign off red X's for any APG job, plus I was engine run qualified and could R2 engines and even blend blades as long as they weren't too bad....

I don't know too many Crew Chiefs (there were a few, though) that could troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag... (there were plenty of specialists that were useless, too)

The point is, "How come specialists were (don't know if they still are...) routinely CUT trained as crew chiefs but crew chiefs weren't cross trained as specialists????"

Smitty

Last edited by Weasel_Keeper on Jan 08, 2011 - 09:51 AM; edited 1 time in total

I'll just say this since you seem to have no real idea what the CC career field is...or like you said you've met some really dumb CCs (maybe one enlistment wonders who don't care or have no clue). Ignorance from other shops seems to follow us everywhere...and that's okay because that's the way it's always been. Our AFSC is: Tactical Aircraft Maintenance Specialist...or Jouneryman, or Manager depending on the 5-7 skill level. Believe it or not, we do perform crucial aircraft maintenance. Our CDCs for 5-7 level include advanced general airframe, powerplant, systems knowledge of 5 different fighter aircraft in the USAF inventory. If I deploy to Iraq on F-16s, with some common sense I should be able to go work on an F-15, A-10, or Predator if they need my help. With the CCAF, just completing our tech school leaves us with only a handful of credits needed to complete a degree. Sure, it may come closer with a couple other career fields, but that's not too shabby for a dumb CC.

ONE part of a DCCs job is to MANAGE the aircraft assigned to them, and help out wherever they can. Our supervisors and Pro Super want to know what the heck is going on at all times with a certain jet, and it's the DCCs responsibility to convey what the heck is going on with that jet. A big part of our job is to be the ring leader on the circus called aircraft maintenance. We're expected to know what you pointy heads, load toads and other back shops are doing so we can know when we can call a jet FMC. Oh...and we also do a hell of a lot of maintenance ourselves believe it or not.

Pictures of monkeys...we're used to it...doesn't hurt. Careful though, we do throw feces like the monkey in a zoo.

Because we are the aircraft managers, the aircraft WILL NOT fly unless we say it will...no matter what backshops or specialists say. Okay, you fixed a radio write up...yay. Do you also realize there may be another few write ups or inspections in the forms that are grounding? Who cares...pointy heads say the plane will fly because they've completed their fix...

I agree we're all in this together and I have a lot of respect for backshops and specialists, but to say it's comical because the last line and first blamed for any problem...the CC...thinks he's important because when the jet's released it's from a CC's signature and knowledge that the jet is good to go, well that's just crazy.

Well, Crew Chiefs were aircraft managers, but nobody ever let you manage like they were supposed to. Remember when the DCC was supposed to set the working hours for the ADCCs? If your jet was down for the day, so were you? Of course, that was back in the days when there were three CCs assigned per jet! As the manning went away, Pro Supers and Flight Chiefs did the managing for you, usually to your detriment. You couldn't go with your jet to Phase any more because you were needed to launch somebody else's jet or tow aircraft or something else.

Just once I would have like to have seen the DCC program as it was meant to be according to the reg...but giving authority and latitude to individual Crew Chiefs (thereby providing them supervisory experience and instilling confidence) mean that it went away from the upper levels of supervision, who tended to want to control everything so they couldn't be blamed if something went wrong. There were too many instances of "Hey, where are all your people at?" from idiots at the Squadron level.

We had a recall at Misawa once and everybody showed up at the AMU. Of course all the Flight Chiefs and Supervision immediately went into a two-hour meeting while we sat around. We knew what to do, so we started rounding up ECM pod cradles, keying jets, all the stuff we normally do for a generation. I sent Swing Shift home (the flight chief was in the meeting) and told them to come back at 4 PM. We generated our jets, but at 3 PM there was another meeting; all of the APG and Weapons guys were well past twelve hours and we still had a long way to go. Our Maintenance Chief asked me how we were going to handle it, and I told him that I had a fresh crew coming in at 4. Everybody looked at me, and the Chief said, "Who told you to send your people home?" Unbelievable. I almost got an LOR out of that. Then, when the 4 PM crew showed up, they didn't want to let the day shifters go home!

That was the Supervision mindset. They didn't encourage management down at the Expediter or even Flight Chief level, because they were afraid something bad would happen. DCCs were the most frequent victims. I don't know of a single instance where anybody ever really tried to make the DCC program work.

Because they were routinely pulled off their aircraft to do other work, most CCs couldn't manage their aircraft to the extent that they wanted. How can you know what the Specs are doing to your jet when you're off on a tow job or launching somebody else's jet? I remember the good old days when we would debrief the pilot and head for the jet, and the CC would already have the AGE in place, panels open, and form entries already made. When manning was slashed, they couldn't do that any more.

I am disheartened whenever I read the kind of stuff in Tim's post. WeaselKeeper is right, we were all in it together. If you were very very lucky, you would find a group of people who worked very well together despite poor supervision. I never saw an instance where if we asked the CC for some help that they refused. Throwing rocks at each other doesn't help.

Best Regards,

TJSmitty wrote:

I am and always will be a "B-Shopper" at heart....

I was fully "CUT" trained to be a Crew Chief and could sign off red X's for any APG job, plus I was engine run qualified and could R2 engines and even blend blades as long as they weren't too bad....

I don't know too many Crew Chiefs (there were a few, though) that could troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag... (there were plenty of specialists that were useless, too)

The point is, "How come specialists were (don't know if they still are...) routinely CUT trained as crew chiefs but crew chiefs weren't cross trained as specialists????"

Smitty

Although it was about 20 years ago I was cut trained. Back then they called it "Rivet Workforce" where Crew Chiefs were trained in Engines and Pneudraulics.

At my ANG base now back shops are only "cut trained" in brake rider and fire guard. I'm still TS'ing hydraulics, engines, and doing minor sheet metal work along with my normal inspections and maintenance.

OT...I still can't figure out why I have to raise the seat for egress shop... Wink

Forum: F-16 Spotting & Photography

The Crew Chief!