Forum: F-22A Raptor

So we've heard that Langley will be getting some T-38's for aggressor and pilot proficiency from Holloman. Since Holloman is loosing all its raptors, where else will we see t-38's? Will they all go to assist raptor pilots at Langley? Also, I assume Beale wont have T-38's too much longer either.

Will we see T-38's at Tyndall Elmendorf and will Holloman keep its test 586 FLTS T-38s?

Also, when will Langley get their T-38's???

F-16.net Sponsor

Cue video of T-38 with F-22 in its gunsights in 5..4..3..2..1..

I've already seen it. It happened in '04 at Tyndall with -38s doing aggressor work there.

The -38 was already dead, but why let details like that keep you from some great HUD footage?

Forum Veteran Joined: Jul 01, 2007 - 07:22 PM Posts: 605

Gunning a -38 is like fighting an unarmed blind man.

It should be . . .

The test T-38's at Holoman are owned by AFMC, not ACC, so they shouldn't be involved in the swap. That said, with the vast majority of T-38's leaving, that makes maintenance on the few remaining test jets a pain. Will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Well actually the T-38 is pretty difficult to gun, it's a tiny target! Raptors and Eagles (or better yet, FLANKERS)... psh. they're the size of a barn, how could you miss? Smile

flyboy22 wrote:

Well actually the T-38 is pretty difficult to gun, it's a tiny target! Raptors and Eagles (or better yet, FLANKERS)... psh. they're the size of a barn, how could you miss? Smile

Oh yea, Raptors are REAL easy to gun. Can't see 'em on RADAR, you're dead before you ever hope to see one, thrust vectoring, super cruise, super maneuverability.... So on and so on, but yea, they're pretty easy to gun. Hell, those things don't stand a chance against a missile.....

Raptor_DCTR wrote:

flyboy22 wrote:

Well actually the T-38 is pretty difficult to gun, it's a tiny target! Raptors and Eagles (or better yet, FLANKERS)... psh. they're the size of a barn, how could you miss? Smile

Oh yea, Raptors are REAL easy to gun. Can't see 'em on RADAR, you're dead before you ever hope to see one, thrust vectoring, super cruise, super maneuverability.... So on and so on, but yea, they're pretty easy to gun. Hell, those things don't stand a chance against a missile.....

Well, once you're in a gun WEZ at the floor. Didn't say you would ever get there Smile

flyboy22 wrote:

Raptor_DCTR wrote:

flyboy22 wrote:

Well actually the T-38 is pretty difficult to gun, it's a tiny target! Raptors and Eagles (or better yet, FLANKERS)... psh. they're the size of a barn, how could you miss? Smile

Oh yea, Raptors are REAL easy to gun. Can't see 'em on RADAR, you're dead before you ever hope to see one, thrust vectoring, super cruise, super maneuverability.... So on and so on, but yea, they're pretty easy to gun. Hell, those things don't stand a chance against a missile.....

Well, once you're in a gun WEZ at the floor. Didn't say you would ever get there Smile

Well, in fact no you won't get a Raptor in your gun WEZ or a good missile shot on one and don't post some lame video from YouTube of a superbug or viper with a Raptor in its gun sight. Those aren't real engagements. They're set up to give the Raptor a disadvantage. In a real life operational engagement, you'd be dead before you even knew there was anything out there. A Raptor driver is not going to get close, he's going to launch BVR without you even knowing he's there.

bandit66 wrote:

I assume Beale wont have T-38's too much longer either.

Why would you assume that?
And what do you propose as Beale's T-38 replacement?

Roscoe wrote:

... with the vast majority of T-38's leaving, that makes maintenance on the few remaining test jets a pain.

Why is that?

Maintence costs per jet go up drastically when the number of jets go down. Having just one jet requires a minimum set of spares, tools, tech orders, etc just to support them. Having 20 jets doesn't require 20 times as much of those things (in fact, in some cases it doesn't go up at all). Spread the costs of the support infrstructure over the number of aircraft you have and you can see how more jets is cheaper to maintain. The AFMC side(ie the testers) only have a small handfull (2? 3?) of Talons...they were "carried" by the full squadrons's worth that ACC had on hand on a sharing agreement. Take awy the ACC side and AFMC will absorb a huge cost burden.

Ah, but don't forget that Holloman is also the depot for all remaining T-38A's... which includes Whiteman and Beale. Most likely, you can expect that any jets going to the F-22 will still fall under that contract.
So while the number of T-38 takeoffs/landings at Holloman might decrease, they will still be responsible for mx/phase/logistics for the A-model fleet... a fleet that could actually GROW, if ACC acquires South Korean T-38A's. If that happens, HMN's workload could increase.

I'd say the test jets will be fine for the time being.

According to the AF Association, it looks like Tyndall will be getting 10 -38s very soon for their training.

Quote:

T-38s for Tyndall: The Air Force intends to station a detachment of 10 T-38 trainer aircraft at Tyndall AFB, Fla., announced Florida Sen. George LeMieux (R). The T-38s will serve there in a "dedicated adversary" role in support of Tyndall's F-22s, he said. Tyndall is currently home to F-22 training but is also slated to receive a squadron of combat-ready F-22s under the Air Force's F-22 basing consolidation plan. LeMieux said the first T-38s would arrive by the end of September 2011, and all 10 are expected to be in place by the end of March 2012.

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Pages/default.aspx

VprWzl wrote:

According to the AF Association, it looks like Tyndall will be getting 10 -38s very soon for their training.

Quote:

T-38s for Tyndall: The Air Force intends to station a detachment of 10 T-38 trainer aircraft at Tyndall AFB, Fla., announced Florida Sen. George LeMieux (R). The T-38s will serve there in a "dedicated adversary" role in support of Tyndall's F-22s, he said. Tyndall is currently home to F-22 training but is also slated to receive a squadron of combat-ready F-22s under the Air Force's F-22 basing consolidation plan. LeMieux said the first T-38s would arrive by the end of September 2011, and all 10 are expected to be in place by the end of March 2012.

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Pages/default.aspx

Sweet, no more status calls! Cool

Forum: F-22A Raptor

T-38's for F-22 aggressor training at Langley?