Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Italy Eyes Defense Cuts Sep 9, 2010 By Andy Nativi Genoa

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... line=Italy Eyes Defense Cuts

"Italy is not immune to the defense cuts that are spreading across Europe. While the government has yet to present a plan for reducing military spending, Defense Minister Ignazio La Russa has revealed highlights of the reductions he will announce by the end of October....

"No decision has been taken on the number of F-35 aircraft that Italy will acquire for the air force and navy, with a tentative combined requirement of 135 A and B versions...."

"These moves will have a major impact on Italy’s defense industry and be scrutinized by parliament, which has asked for a wide-ranging defense restructuring instead of cuts and cost reductions."

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Interesting. Yes, this is just simple confirmation of what has already been known as being inevitable, via common sense, for at least a few years now.

But that is an interesting stance and insight into the situation as quoted, apparently being taken by Italian Parliament.

Based on this info though, my gut speculation would be to at least study a possibility for the ski-jump capable navalized Tejas variant under development, perhaps powered by a thrust vectoring EJ2000 engine to keep in economies of scale with Aeronautica Militare's Typhoon logistics?

Such an alternative could be more sustainable and less risky, hence more along the lines of a defense restructuring?

Since the fall of the Soviet Union, defense cuts, defense cuts, defense cuts. Especially in Europe. Pretty soon these western European countries won't have anything left to cut.

I don't understand how they manage to keep finding things to cut.

Everything will have to be cut at the core, from unfunded social based liabilities to defense spending. Defense of course is just a sub-set of overall total budgets which need to be reduced.

Now as for the matter of getting more bang per unit of defense spending, perhaps that is in part at least where parliament is thinking: restructure defense? Thus, the F-35 simply doesn't fit into that 'more bang for future defense unit of spending' thinking, I'm afraid. It's more of the opposite unfortunately: unexpectedly absorbing disproportionate defense budgets, staying the course.

geogen wrote:

Now as for the matter of getting more bang per unit of defense spending, perhaps that is in part at least where parliament is thinking: restructure defense? Thus, the F-35 simply doesn't fit into that 'more bang for future defense unit of spending' thinking, I'm afraid. It's more of the opposite unfortunately: unexpectedly absorbing disproportionate defense budgets, staying the course.

You speak for the Italian government now I see, my you have risen through the ranks of power...

shep1978 wrote:

You speak for the Italian government now I see, my you have risen through the ranks of power...

Seems like a harmless opinion to me.

exorcet wrote:

Seems like a harmless opinion to me.

Layed down as an outright fact...

Give it a break, shep1978. His opinion was harmless. Your post was completely OT.

It doesn't make a lot of sense for Italy to have 90+ Typhoons on order while also planning 130 F-35's. Even if they cut the order by 50, it seems like they'll need to eventually dump an awful lot of Typhoons way before their airframes expire.

madrat wrote:

Give it a break, shep1978. His opinion was harmless. Your post was completely OT.

Why? Because I pointed out that he does not in anyway speak for the Italian government and that his post was nothing more than his opinion dressed up as hard facts?

shep1978 wrote:

Why? Because I pointed out that he does not in anyway speak for the Italian government and that his post was nothing more than his opinion dressed up as hard facts?

With words and phrases like "my gut speculation", "perhaps that is" or "I'm afraid"? Sorry but you are way off the mark here, it's almost paranoid to read in that posts what you claim! Shocked

Shep1978 - As much as I appreciate most of your posts, in my opinion, you were out of line in your response to Geogen. He was just stating his perspective. A few folks (more impartial than you) have now weighed in and said you were rude and you still don't seem willing to consider the fact that you may have overstepped. As you are so fond of saying to others, do you have any idea how ridiculous you look right now? Public opinion isn't always on your side. Wink

LoL, thanks all. It's all good, no harm - we're all adults here for the most part. Give and take on these discussion boards you know...

Truly, I'm sure Shep and I would have a helluva great time watching the RN Super Hornet demo at some UK airshow one day and having a couple of beers.

Scorpion82 wrote:

shep1978 wrote:

Why? Because I pointed out that he does not in anyway speak for the Italian government and that his post was nothing more than his opinion dressed up as hard facts?

With words and phrases like "my gut speculation", "perhaps that is" or "I'm afraid"? Sorry but you are way off the mark here, it's almost paranoid to read in that posts what you claim! Shocked

His 'gut specualation' was in another post altogether and the term "i'm afraid" doesn't work in the way you think it does when used in the English language (in other words it doesn't mean he is actually afraid as in frightened)
Take a look at what I quoted again and you will se it is written as a set of facts and not opinion.
I'm also not here for some popularity contest and I don't drink either.

Honestly Geo,

Your posts, while good intended make for some crazy Hypothesis.

1. Italy is building an F-35 assembly plant. Do you really think the Tejas has a chance considering this?

2. The Indians have almost no acft experience. The Tejas is their first game into acft building let alone Naval aviation. They are still looking for foreign partners regarding Naval platforms. How long do you think that will take? The Chinese are craving the same tech themselves.

3. Even India knows that it cannot rely onTejas to solve its defense needs (more SU-27MKI and MMCRA program). Do you really think Italy is going to bet on it?

4. Social/Economic considerations. Need I say more.

His reply may sound blunt and dissenting, but it makes sense if you understand what is involved.

Just saying......

cywolf32 wrote:

Honestly Geo,

Your posts, while good intended make for some crazy Hypothesis.

1. Italy is building an F-35 assembly plant. Do you really think the Tejas has a chance considering this?

2. The Indians have almost no acft experience. The Tejas is their first game into acft building let alone Naval aviation. They are still looking for foreign partners regarding Naval platforms. How long do you think that will take? The Chinese are craving the same tech themselves.

3. Even India knows that it cannot rely onTejas to solve its defense needs (more SU-27MKI and MMCRA program). Do you really think Italy is going to bet on it?

4. Social/Economic considerations. Need I say more.

His reply may sound blunt and dissenting, but it makes sense if you understand what is involved.

Just saying......

Thanks for reply, Cy. I guess my gut feeling in this specific regard is that 'Tejas-N' appears to be a legit, cost-effective program at least worth studying as a ski-jump capable econo fighter solution. That was the only point I was forcing upon the Italian Military; as being in the higher echelons of decision making power that I am. Shocked

And a disclaimer to Shep: I'm not employed by any industry relevant to aviation or defense, or govt lobbying for that matter. For discussion purposes... I'm actually in the physical fitness industry and happily so, currently. That is: I'm no threat to your agenda, m8. Respects.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Perhaps Mixed F-35A & Bs for Italy (reduced?)