Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

This from a Flight Global Article. Looks like upgrades will be possible then!

Lockheed Martin confirms the US Air Force has decided to retain tooling for the F-22 after the production line in Marietta, Georgia, shuts down as scheduled in 2012.

The decision means that USAF officials will be able to repair and modernise the service's aircraft, or manufacture new Raptors.

Lockheed says tools with "near-term needs" will be retained on site. Others will be preserved and stored in large, bar-coded steel containers commonly used by the shipping industry, which it says reduces "costs associated with conventional warehousing".

Air force officials were not immediately available to comment, but have previously said that a decision to preserve F-22 tooling would be intended to support a future service life-extension programme for the stealth fighter.

At the same time, the decision also implicitly preserves the option to restart production if future administrations decide that the USAF needs more than 186 F-22s.

Congress in 2009 approved the Obama administration's decision not to extend F-22 production beyond the programme of record set by the Bush administration in 2006. But the Congressional approval came only after several months of heated debate.

Meanwhile, Rand's Project Air Force analytical group published a study on 3 March showing that the F-22 supply chain could be reactivated after a two-year gap. Rand studied not only the availability of tooling, but also whether key suppliers could leave the industry within this period of time.

However, Rand concluded that restarting production after a two-year work stoppage would significantly increase costs.

Assuming a 75-aircraft production run over five years, it found the cost per aircraft would be $227 million. If production continued without interruption, the average unit cost would be $173 million.

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That at least is *something* in that it is better than nothing. Hmm, sounds like the cost a re-run F-22 will not be too far off the mark from the F-35 when all things are said and done with that program.

But the issue with re-running the Raptor line is that there are VERY long lead time items. It would take nearly 2 years after a decision is made before a new 22 could roll out into the paint booth.

But then there are also questions about the electronics in the Raptor. Those items are quite old in that they date back to the 90s. I don't believe that "tooling" will be maintained.

I wish our collective leaders could see past their ignorance and at least keep the line open for a total of 275'ish 22s. That at least would be enough to spread to a 2 front campaign against countries that do have planes comparable to the F-15s and 16s in our inventory. At least we'd a very good front line airplane to supplement the masses of 15s and 16s.

At least now, if there is a new CIC who wants more Raptors, it is very possible.

Some hope for the dream; the F-22B/C with twin F119-PW-2XX! Twisted Evil

TEG

PS - Threw the dual cockpit 'C' model in there for Jamming/SEAD special missions and our incentive rides... Cool

That_Engine_Guy wrote:

At least now, if there is a new CIC who wants more Raptors, it is very possible.

Some hope for the dream; the F-22B/C with twin F119-PW-2XX! Twisted Evil

TEG

PS - Threw the dual cockpit 'C' model in there for Jamming/SEAD special missions and our incentive rides... Cool

I suppose that's my cue to trot this out again: Wink

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This is some good news and the wisest decision I think the US Govt has made in a while. I just hope the tooling is well tracked, and very secure. It would be very bad for it to fall into the wrong hands or have photos taken of it.

This is pretty good news. At least to retain the option of building more if you need them. Another good idea would be to stock up in the longest lead items needed to restart production, but hey, you can't get everything...

I don't think this is a question of being right or wrong on this issue. The money just isn't there. In the future it might be and that's what I think this is about.

Best news I've heard in a LONG time... Now, if only they could resurrect the YF-23A.

em745 wrote:

That_Engine_Guy wrote:

At least now, if there is a new CIC who wants more Raptors, it is very possible.

Some hope for the dream; the F-22B/C with twin F119-PW-2XX! Twisted Evil

TEG

PS - Threw the dual cockpit 'C' model in there for Jamming/SEAD special missions and our incentive rides... Cool

I suppose that's my cue to trot this out again: Wink

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Dude I so want to make a model of this one......

Maybe there's hope for a Japanese Raptor yet.

Quote:

sewerrat
That at least is *something* in that it is better than nothing.

That much is true. However I would not get TOO excited about this. Although its better than hearing that they threw the tooling away - like McNamara did with the SR-71 way back when. Congress loves to sit on the fence and not actually make a "real" decision. This feels a lot like that to me. That haven't really discontinued the F-22 they're just mothballing it until there's a need for it, or are they just pushing the decision further down the road (possibly to another administration)? Feels a lot like passing the buck to me, but that's just my Two Cents

I'm glad the final nail in the F-22's coffin has yet to be struck, at least there is still hope.

Quote:

That Engine Guy
Some hope for the dream; the F-22B/C with twin F119-PW-2XX!

I'm hoping for a stretched FB-22 derivative myself! Wink

It'd be nice if we could get another 3-4 years of production. 266 jets would mean roughly 168 PAA or 7 squadrons of 24 jets each. Of that 266, 166 would be Blk 35+ capable. Probably won't happen but one can dream!

bandit66 wrote:

Dude I so want to make a model of this one......

Here's the original pic (with an image viewer, you can flip rapidly back and forth between the two, to see the changes):

sewerrat wrote:

That at least is *something* in that it is better than nothing. Hmm, sounds like the cost a re-run F-22 will not be too far off the mark from the F-35 when all things are said and done with that program.

A restart would be considerably more expensive than F-35s, which is why it would've been far better had they kept the line open producing the 243-381 size fleet.

Quote:

But then there are also questions about the electronics in the Raptor. Those items are quite old in that they date back to the 90s. I don't believe that "tooling" will be maintained.

Block 30/35s are most definitely not flying around with 90s electronics.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Tooling to be preserved