Forum: F-35 Lightning II

I read somewhere that stealth and long-range air combat advantages of the F-35 are less reliable and assured than the program promises. Even assuming (against historical precedent), that the F-35 performs as promised, it would provide a capability that is not warranted, considering current and emerging threats.

Not good news for a fanboy like myself. Sad

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The download has no facts, figures or even suppositions to support its point about the range or LO issue.

hehe

Considering Winslow Wheeler helped with it, no wonder it wants to cancel the F-35.

Do any of the authors have a Defense related background?

@shingen

What do you mean that it has no facts?

The document is written by Winslow T. Wheeler, the Director of the Straus Military Reform Project at the Center for Defense Information in Washington DC. Previously, he spent 31 years working on national security issues for Republican and Democratic United States Senators and the Government Accountability Office. As a Senate staffer, Wheeler worked extensively on hundreds of bills and amendments, including the War Powers Act and multiple proposals to reform Pentagon procurement. While at the GAO, Wheeler directed comprehensive studies on the US strategic-nuclear triad and the air campaign of Operation Desert Storm.

And?

Still no facts. Wheeler has been a longtime hater of both the F-22 and F-35.

SpudmanWP wrote:

And?

Still no facts. Wheeler has been a longtime hater of both the F-22 and F-35.

It doesn't mean that he is wrong.

But the report does not state facts, just supposition and ideas to reduce the budgetary spending.

Instead of posting his resume, how about linking parts of the report that show facts.

Ok, gang...I read all of these forums daily, and with extreme rare exception do I pitch into the fight, but for all of the "nay sayers" on the F-22 and F-35, most of you have no clue what the aircraft capabilities are. And to quote any report by anyone outside of the program trying to make a dollar by selling some hearsay story about what the vehicles can or cannot do, shows poor form in my opinion. Having flown against the F-22 let me just say the damn thing works period. It doesn't just work a little, the aircraft is phenomenal. Unless you have had the priviledge to fly the viper against the Raptor or the F-35 you really have no idea what your commenting on. There is no vehicle, nor will there ever be and aircraft completely and utterly 100% bullet proof or non-exploitable. But I'm here to tell you that if the F-35 builds on the ground breaking work the Raptor has done, it will be a long freakin time before any, and yes I said any, aircraft manufacturer even comes close to its operational capability. Yes, I will give it to the peanut gallery that the F-35 like the F-22 has yet to prove anything in "real" combat, but if you have ever flown in a REDFLAG and the intensity level it brings, you can appreciate the incredible capabilities of the Raptor. I love the viper and unfortunately will hang my spurs up soon, but the F-22 and the F-35 will pave a legacy just as bright. There are a lot of great aircraft out there, the Rafale, Typhoon, Su-37 etc., but I'm here to tell you the F-22 and the F-35 will dominate, I know I keep getting shot by them regardless how you try and cheat! One final thing, for all of the folks reading this and saying "well what about that Navy Hornet or some other aircraft that claims a simualted kill"....the Raptor let them win or the win would have been garnered by some ridiculous simulation or in an effort to protect true capability. Thats all I have to say on the subject...take it or leave it.

VprDrvr wrote:

Ok, gang...I read all of these forums daily, and with extreme rare exception do I pitch into the fight, but for all of the "nay sayers" on the F-22 and F-35, most of you have no clue what the aircraft capabilities are. And to quote any report by anyone outside of the program trying to make a dollar by selling some hearsay story about what the vehicles can or cannot do, shows poor form in my opinion. Having flown against the F-22 let me just say the damn thing works period. It doesn't just work a little, the aircraft is phenomenal. Unless you have had the priviledge to fly the viper against the Raptor or the F-35 you really have no idea what your commenting on. There is no vehicle, nor will there ever be and aircraft completely and utterly 100% bullet proof or non-exploitable. But I'm here to tell you that if the F-35 builds on the ground breaking work the Raptor has done, it will be a long freakin time before any, and yes I said any, aircraft manufacturer even comes close to its operational capability. Yes, I will give it to the peanut gallery that the F-35 like the F-22 has yet to prove anything in "real" combat, but if you have ever flown in a REDFLAG and the intensity level it brings, you can appreciate the incredible capabilities of the Raptor. I love the viper and unfortunately will hang my spurs up soon, but the F-22 and the F-35 will pave a legacy just as bright. There are a lot of great aircraft out there, the Rafale, Typhoon, Su-37 etc., but I'm here to tell you the F-22 and the F-35 will dominate, I know I keep getting shot by them regardless how you try and cheat! One final thing, for all of the folks reading this and saying "well what about that Navy Hornet or some other aircraft that claims a simualted kill"....the Raptor let them win or the win would have been garnered by some ridiculous simulation or in an effort to protect true capability. Thats all I have to say on the subject...take it or leave it.

Oh my Pussy is sore ... no advanced sensors and such?

Close your facebook accounts, put the I phones away and kick a$$ like this lady did?
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/S ... ry0016.htm

Winslow T Wheeler...aka d**khead pencil pusher who spews rubbish........pfft......I rest my case.

LOL, Wheeler.

I won't even bother opeing the 'report' now I know he was involved. Thanks for saving me 5 minutes of my life guys.

Also thats some very interesting stuff there VprDrvr, and I can't wait till more performance info on the F-22 is made public in the future years, though that could be a long wait I guess... Sad

SpudmanWP wrote:

And?

Still no facts. Wheeler has been a longtime hater of both the F-22 and F-35.

And F-14, F-15, and any other fighter with a capable radar, missile load, and range. He works for a left leaning "think tank" that always seems to find conclusion why capable weapon systems are unneeded, or won't work. Him a Pierre Sprey will never have anything positive to say about multi-role aircraft.

VARKVET,

I thought thats what I smelled. Thanks for clearing up your pussy problem.

VprDrvr speaks the truth. I've gotten my butt kicked by the Raptor enough to verify his claims. Luck is luck and s$%t happens for the occasional HUD footage, but with all my sensors, weapons, etc. I've only been able to get to a merge with a Raptor once and then only because we gave them impossible numbers and we kept regenerating. (He gunned me at the merge, I'm embarassed to say - he was out of missiles.)

I'll tell you about the F-35 in a couple years.

I'd actually like to see someone post convincing info against the F-35. It would be interesting. Instead we get Luddite: "Look at what happened in Vienam with missiles." Or just "snarky" sniping about cost overruns and delays as if any defense programs are on schedule/budget. Or "Look at APA's genius level analysis."

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

F-35 performs less than the program promises