Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

I think nothing

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Anything could take it on. Now, could it BEAT a Raptor? I would hope not.

Lightndattic wrote:

Anything could take it on. Now, could it BEAT a Raptor? I would hope not.

Only a Raptor could beat a Raptor if one pilot is better than the other pilot.

This is a silly question. The Raptor currently enjoys significant advantages over any potential foes, but given the right circumstances, the Raptor could lose occasionally. It's not likely, but certainly possible.

The expected advantages which are on T-50 side

- better maneuverability overall (superior aerodynamics design, more advanced controls, engine with a 3D thrust-vectoring)

- T-50 airframe and controls are designed for supersonic speeds in a better way (faster supercruise too).

- five radars (primary X-Band AESA radar, two side-looking AESA radars, 2 L-band radars in the wing leading edges) and IRST (F-22 lacks the electro-optical and infrared sensors). This electronic equipment should provide better situation awareness on T-50.

- anti-air missiles with greater range (internal weapons bays on T-50 are longer).

- better combat load with more missiles carried in the internal weapons bays which are longer than F-22's bays.

- longer range (better internal fuel capacity).

- it's possible that future engine for PAK-FA/T-50 could have significantly more thrust and better TTW ratio compared to F-22 F119-PW-100 engine.

F-22 is not "wunderwaffe". It's over-hyped in some way. My personal opinion.

First those 5 Radars wouldn't help against the Raptor's stealth.Which would enable the raptor to get close,rendering the long range missiles no better than the raptor's short range ones. And that just ruins two T-50 features. Than you throw the F-22s maneuverablity in and it's up to the pilots to decide who wins. Making the F-22 the winner.

primorsky wrote:

The expected advantages which are on T-50 side

- better maneuverability overall (superior aerodynamics design, more advanced controls, engine with a 3D thrust-vectoring)

- T-50 airframe and controls are designed for supersonic speeds in a better way (faster supercruise too).

- five radars (primary X-Band AESA radar, two side-looking AESA radars, 2 L-band radars in the wing leading edges) and IRST (F-22 lacks the electro-optical and infrared sensors). This electronic equipment should provide better situation awareness on T-50.

- anti-air missiles with greater range (internal weapons bays on T-50 are longer).

- better combat load with more missiles carried in the internal weapons bays which are longer than F-22's bays.

- longer range (better internal fuel capacity).

- it's possible that future engine for PAK-FA/T-50 could have significantly more thrust and better TTW ratio compared to F-22 F119-PW-100 engine.

You are right primorsky. But that is on paper, not in reality, because as we read and write here, T-50 does not have the engine that it want, does not have the radars that you write and the avionics need to be ...

It does have longer bays.
Most likely it have more fuel, that mean heavier, too.

Also, it it possible to write on paper anything one want. In that case there are so many airplanes better/superior then T-50 and/or F-22.

Btw, did India sign to give the money for the (T-50=words on papers) development? I'm not asking about the one signed in 2007 ...

As for the future, when T-50 will have what it said, F-22 will be improved. And if for F-22 it is for sure, I'm not that sure that T-50 will have engines, radars, avionics ... you got the idea ...

(Please, don't feed the troll.)

primorsky wrote:

The expected advantages which are on T-50 side

- better maneuverability overall (superior aerodynamics design, more advanced controls, engine with a 3D thrust-vectoring)

- T-50 airframe and controls are designed for supersonic speeds in a better way (faster supercruise too).

- five radars (primary X-Band AESA radar, two side-looking AESA radars, 2 L-band radars in the wing leading edges) and IRST (F-22 lacks the electro-optical and infrared sensors). This electronic equipment should provide better situation awareness on T-50.

- anti-air missiles with greater range (internal weapons bays on T-50 are longer).

- better combat load with more missiles carried in the internal weapons bays which are longer than F-22's bays.

- longer range (better internal fuel capacity).

- it's possible that future engine for PAK-FA/T-50 could have significantly more thrust and better TTW ratio compared to F-22 F119-PW-100 engine.

A lot of conjecture here. Very little is known about the F-22’s capabilities and even less is known about the T-50s. Many of these points themselves are debatable but nonetheless when I see a comparison matrix such as this one the first thing I ask myself is ‘are any of these tactically significant advantages’. More often the not the answer is usually “no” and in almost all situations the true answer is unknown because of classification. Yes there’s a lot of hype about each platforms in the various media; welcome to the fighter business. Talk is cheap

primorsky wrote:

The expected advantages which are on T-50 side

- better maneuverability overall (superior aerodynamics design, more advanced controls, engine with a 3D thrust-vectoring)

The production T-50 will have 2D TVC. Define superior aerodynamics quantitatively. Superior at what?

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- T-50 airframe and controls are designed for supersonic speeds in a better way (faster supercruise too).

What does this even mean? Designed for supersonic speeds in a better way? What's the supercruise speed of the T-50?

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- five radars (primary X-Band AESA radar, two side-looking AESA radars, 2 L-band radars in the wing leading edges) and IRST (F-22 lacks the electro-optical and infrared sensors). This electronic equipment should provide better situation awareness on T-50.

None of which have demonstrated their capabilities.

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- anti-air missiles with greater range (internal weapons bays on T-50 are longer).

Limited missile load when carrying R-37s, and R-77s aren't longer ranged than latest AMRAAMs.

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- it's possible that future engine for PAK-FA/T-50 could have significantly more thrust and better TTW ratio compared to F-22 F119-PW-100 engine.

Perhaps, and only if the F-119s don't get any improvements in the next 10-12 years.

cfg

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You are right primorsky. But that is on paper, not in reality, because as we read and write here, T-50 does not have the engine that it want, does not have the radars that you write and the avionics need to be ...

T-50 is prototype name (internal designation of Sukhoy bureau).
I just designated the expected strong points of future PAK-FA design in my opinon. Some of these points are quite visible on the first flying prototype.

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It does have longer bays.
Most likely it have more fuel, that mean heavier, too.

But fuel load could be depended on the mission.

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Btw, did India sign to give the money for the (T-50=words on papers) development? I'm not asking about the one signed in 2007 ...

"T-50" is just prototype designation. "PAK-FA" designation is more correctly name for this aircraft.

India planning to sign not only to give the money for FGFA program (for export version of the fighter jet for Indian Air Force. Note: it's not same program as PAK-FA), but also they want to jointly develop some FGFA components with Russia.

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As for the future, when T-50 will have what it said, F-22 will be improved. And if for F-22 it is for sure

Everything is possible, even revival of F-22 mass production.

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I'm not that sure that T-50 will have engines, radars, avionics ... you got the idea ...

Actually, T-50 have new engine (34 000+ lbs class). And the current engine "meets all main requirements for PAK-FA engine of the first stage" (claimed by Officials).
As for "second stage" engine, this future(and much improved in mind) engine is nothing more than declarations of intentions by this moment.

Radars are close to finish line of development. They should put them on "flying labaratory" aircraft for aerial trials in 2011.

Avionics on T-50 prototype "is all new" according to official news sources and reports. At least, PAK-FA's cockpit looking far different compared to Su-35(BM) cockpit. Other details about electronic equipment are not available.

Who's trolling?

primorsky wrote:

Actually, T-50 have new engine (34 000+ lbs class). And the current engine "meets all main requirements for PAK-FA engine of the first stage" (claimed by Officials).

They're actually closer to the 30-32k lb thrust class, and that's uninstalled thrust. The new engines won't be ready for 10-12yrs.

I'm thinking the F35A might give the Raptor drivers something to worry about.

ANYTHING can take on a Raptor. That doesn't mean it'll win. Money will always be on the Raptor.

Only Chuck norris could beat a raptor. I wonder if Carlo Kopp has done a chuck norris analysis?

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Could anything take on a Raptor