Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

exorcet wrote:

I suppose so, but I was implying that the plane would be lost, TVC controls or not [ it's over enemy territory with no power]. If the engine dies on takeoff or near a friendly base, then having aero controls would be a great help.

I'm talking about losing the plane and pilot vs. just the plane.

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Eject.

exorcet wrote:

Eject.

In a plane where you have no control authority whatsoever, that may be easier said than done.

A good point, especially in something unstable.

There was an interview given by a Viper pilot years back when the F-22 was just beginning to flex its muscles vs. legacy jets.. the guy was in total awe of the Raptor's ability to outmaneuver his Viper without resorting to TVC. That gave me early on an inkling of the new jets capabilities.

With Boeing's tailless F/A-XX designs, they seem to think there is some way to eliminate tail surfaces. I imagine there might be vectoring but also other control methods such as deccelerons/split ailerons.

popcorn wrote:

There was an interview given by a Viper pilot years back when the F-22 was just beginning to flex its muscles vs. legacy jets.. the guy was in total awe of the Raptor's ability to outmaneuver his Viper without resorting to TVC. That gave me early on an inkling of the new jets capabilities.

How can anyone make that assertion, given that the FLCS controls the nozzles, not the pilot? I may be wrong, but I doubt slight nozzle deflections (in the ±5° range) will be perceptible to the eye during hard maneuvering.

The flat tvc nozzles seem to be pretty good for something.

madrat wrote:

The flat tvc nozzles seem to be pretty good for something.

I don't think anyones yet spotted it but that certainly looks like the standard RCS enhacer under the Raptors fuselage in that pic, very interesting...

shep1978 wrote:

I don't think anyones yet spotted it but that certainly looks like the standard RCS enhacer under the Raptors fuselage in that pic, very interesting...

That IS interesting, isn't it? Cool

Visual aids:

em745 wrote:

popcorn wrote:

There was an interview given by a Viper pilot years back when the F-22 was just beginning to flex its muscles vs. legacy jets.. the guy was in total awe of the Raptor's ability to outmaneuver his Viper without resorting to TVC. That gave me early on an inkling of the new jets capabilities.

How can anyone make that assertion, given that the FLCS controls the nozzles, not the pilot? I may be wrong, but I doubt slight nozzle deflections (in the ±5° range) will be perceptible to the eye during hard maneuvering.

The FLCS does control the vectoring, but...only utilizes it under certain conditions(i.e. high AoA, low throttle, supersonic trim, high altitude maneuvering, etc...). One can probably safely assume that the F-16 pilot has spoken with F-22 pilot, before and after the flights, as well as what they can see visually.

em745 wrote:

shep1978 wrote:

I don't think anyones yet spotted it but that certainly looks like the standard RCS enhacer under the Raptors fuselage in that pic, very interesting...

That IS interesting, isn't it? Cool

Visual aids:

Cheers for the pics, I wasn't 100% certain but now I am.
Just shows that for all the French gloating they were fighting a jet with a friggin radar reflector attached to it and yet they still didn't fare too well.

I haven't seen the Raptors use of RCS enhancers mentioned in any French press reports either which speaks volumes...

Remember too that the pics only show a close (< 2km) F-22 being tracking visually somewhere in the forward quadrant of the Raf (the FSO can swivel).

The pics do not show a gun solution or indicate which way the Raf is pointing. All of this is IMHO of course Smile

We know that the Rafael couldn't get successfully pointed at the F-22 in several attempts.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 without thrust vectoring