Forum: General

Hello All,

I know that the USAF is upgrading some F-15Cs and all the F-15Es with AESA. is there a similar plan for a portion of the F-16C fleet, maybe involving SABR, or are they going to just soldier on until replacement?

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I believe the new upgrade is called the F-35... Sad

http://www.f-16.net/news_article650.html

They've already implemented a lot of upgrades. CCIP is one example. I think block 25 thru 32 got the CUPID. Here's a good link on some of the upgrades.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 6-life.htm

I think future upgrades aside from the ones mentioned will be in the future as well. I think SABR would be the one of the best things they could give the F-16 fleet in the future.

Upgrades....the cost of upgrades over the years may have perhaps been equal to a new airframe?

Depending on how things go, I could see APG-80s showing up on USAF falcons.

Toying around with the idea!

http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/prod/ ... 010A16.pdf

APG-80s will never be introduced on the existing USAF vipers since these radars require a lot more cooling and tooling then the APG-66/68. It would simply require too much modifications and thus costs.

Greets,

I'd have to unfortunately vote w/Bjorn on the APG-80, but how much different is the SABR unit? Any difference in cooling and tooling complications?

To answer the initial question, I personally suspect that DoD, under the current vision, will try and let the F-16 squeak by with as few as possible 'major upgrades' between now and perhaps 2020-2022 when all will probably be (early?) retired. This 'vision' could change, sure, especially with greater unexpected JSF setbacks, but at best, I'd see only a handful, perhaps 2-3 squadrons of 'Golden Vipers', becoming substantially upgraded (upgraded power and new avionics/rewiring).

Best case scenario according to at least one camp of thought, would have been for USAF to have joint-developed and Leased or bought new build extended range, delta-winged, AESA tipped F-16Xx already being delivered into service this year (at the very least, block 50/52+), as a parallel stopgap until significant F-35A squadrons are FOC. Unfortunately, the total Wing force structure will receive more haircuts, beyond the latest projections even, before it's done.

As an old radar guy, I personally think SABR is awesome. Do a search for SABR on YouTube, there is a pretty good video from the Vendor. Basically, you just pop it in the Avionics bay where the APG-68 is now, there is a cooling module included with the SABR package. The biggest advantage I can think of (besides the improved performance of SABR) is that any DMS issues go away. The old APG-68 parts just can't last forever.

Only bad thing I can think of with SABR is that there may be some software changes required, I don't know for certain. Even so, it seems to me to be a pretty cost-effective way to bring F-16 radar into the 21st century.

Best Regards,

SABR is indeed a possibility to upgrade 'older' versions. It was tested on an F-16 testbed and suited fittable in all aspects. Question is whether there will be a market for such an upgrade package since those older models are reaching the end of their projected lifespan between now and 2025. So why invest in such an upgrade if you have to replace the entire fighter in 2025 anyway. Only later build block 40/42/50/52 models could be suited to receive this radar since their projected lifespan will see them operational till 2030-2035.

Greets,

Just because a jet is retired doesn't mean its SABR system has to be retired. For example, when the USN/USMC upgraded their F-18As to A+ standard those aircraft had their APG-65s replaced with APG-73s. Those older APG-65s went into AV-8B+ aircraft. If SABR equipped F-16s are retired, the radars can be a source of spares or be used for other purposes. Since the system is "scalable" it could be installed in aircraft such as the F-15E, AC-130U, MC-130, KC-130 (heck, all models of Hercules), B-1B (forward and aft facing) legacy F-18s, etc. SABR could be the "standard" radar across a wide range of aircraft. We should put this radar in F-16s immediately.

Good video on the system. Cool

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solut ... s/sabr.wmv

discofishing wrote:

If SABR equipped F-16s are retired, the radars can be a source of spares or be used for other purposes.

In other words, the entire point of the Boneyard.

I can shed a little light on some of these issues. SABR was designed as a direct replacement for mechanically scanned F-16 radars, without the need for any structural, cooling, or power modifications. We achieved two major milestones recently – we flew the radar on an Air Force F-16, and we received an export license from the State Department.

Air Force F-16 flight: http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=182641

Export license: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/02/03/337976/singapore-2010-northrop-gains-export-licence-in-radar-race-with.html

We will be posting news as it occurs to our site at http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/sabr/.

- Steve from Northrop Grumman

Forum: General

Uprgrade Plans for USAF Vipers?