Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Hey, I'm new here. been stalking for a little while though. great site Smile

. I love military history. and the tomcat is by far my favorite plane. I was reading through the F-14 vs. F-22 thread. I totally agree with you guys. the -22 what crush even the D model F-14's

but here is my proposed scenario.

Lets put a Tomcat 21 vs. the 22. what do we have now?

from what I remember of the specs on what the F-14D+'s were supposed to be was:

upgraded F110-GE-129 engines. these allowed "supercruise" (mach 1.3)
use of the AMRAAM
Helmet mounted sights on BOTH the RIO and pilot (ability to fire on 2 targets at the same time)
Upgraded radar suit
35% better combat radius than the D model
thrust vectoring (Not 100% sure on this)

also there were significant changes to the airframe allowing it to turn tighter.

Also I remember the intakes being reshaped and the wing slats being put on in some different way

now. I'm not trying to hype it up. but this is what I remember from the specs. seems like a pretty in-freaking-credible plane to me. I think it'd give the F-22 a run for it's money BVR for sure and WVR also.

now I understand the F-22 still has the stealth thing going on. but I think it's an interesting hypothetical situation.

sound off!

(you can call me Brett if you like by the way)

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Other Super Tomcat 21 sites

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0132.shtml

http://www.topedge.com/alley/text/other/tomcat21.htm

SpudmanWP wrote:

Other Super Tomcat 21 sites

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0132.shtml

http://www.topedge.com/alley/text/other/tomcat21.htm

Yep Read through those Smile

You sure you're new?:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_profile- ... 12111.html

Anyway, the F-14 is always going to have those heavy swing-wings, a major drawback. There's a reason no one makes airplanes with them anymore. Unless you plan on starting pretty much from scratch, the F-22 is going to be more maneuverable. Helmet mounted sights might work (some Super Hornet pilots might know), but I doubt it's ever going to get close enough to find out.
Stealth is going to be a major F-14 problem, those straight-line intakes are perfectly positioned to reveal the engine face. The Raptor is going to see him from a million miles away, and the he F-22 is probably going to be flying high and faster, since the F-14 is always going to have some drag from external munitions (can AMRAAMS fit in the conformal hardpoints between the ducts?). Well, that and the F119 is optimized for supercruise, among other things.

Basically, unless you retrofit the F-14 with a flux capacitor to travel back in time to destroy the F-22 while it was still in the design stages, the F-22 is going to win.

Prinz_Eugn wrote:

You sure you're new?:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_profile- ... 12111.html

Anyway, the F-14 is always going to have those heavy swing-wings, a major drawback. There's a reason no one makes airplanes with them anymore. Unless you plan on starting pretty much from scratch, the F-22 is going to be more maneuverable. Helmet mounted sights might work (some Super Hornet pilots might know), but I doubt it's ever going to get close enough to find out.
Stealth is going to be a major F-14 problem, those straight-line intakes are perfectly positioned to reveal the engine face. The Raptor is going to see him from a million miles away, and the he F-22 is probably going to be flying high and faster, since the F-14 is always going to have some drag from external munitions (can AMRAAMS fit in the conformal hardpoints between the ducts?). Well, that and the F119 is optimized for supercruise, among other things.

Basically, unless you retrofit the F-14 with a flux capacitor to travel back in time to destroy the F-22 while it was still in the design stages, the F-22 is going to win.

that's is definitely not me haha.

Yeah the AMRAAM can fit for sure. they had it all figured out and it was going to be done but they cut the program.

the Tomcat 21 had some "stealth" features built in much like the new Hornets from what I remember also.

as for the flux capacitor. where can I get one ?

also for giggles lets say we put two F119's int he F-14. what do we have now? just a really freaking fast pile of bricks? :p

The Tomcat 21 would have been nice, but I think it would still be outclassed. The two helmet sighting theory probably wouldn't work out, as there might be conflicting data problems with the system. Wasn't the AIM-54 Phoenix only launched by the RIO because he operated the radar? I'm not totally sure about that, but having two hands(or heads) in the missile cookie jar seems to only complicate things. That big FLIR/TISEO type system they proposed for under he nose of the 21 might have helped out somewhat though. Now I am wondering how the Tomcat 21 would fare against the Super Hornets! Laughing

The F-22 just seems to have the advantage in all areas of this comparison.

AIM-54 Phoenix and APG-71 in F-14 D along w/ E2C link4 might have seen F-22, But we'll never know...........

@ Stolichanya

Yeah I forgot about the FLIR stuff they planned on doing also. either way it would have been interesting.

as for SuperHornet Vs. Tomcat 21 or even a new production D model with small upgrades it would have smoked the Hornets imho.

I also heard some stuff about reviving the Phoenix program...but I'm not totally sure on that

StolichnayaStrafer wrote:

The Tomcat 21 would have been nice, but I think it would still be outclassed. The two helmet sighting theory probably wouldn't work out, as there might be conflicting data problems with the system.

They already have two JHMCS working at the same time on the F-18F, I'm not sure how the details work, though.

Never knew that(or even thought about it), I wonder how effective it is...

come to think about it, can both crewmembers in AH-64 Apaches control their weapons with their helmets?

StolichnayaStrafer wrote:

Never knew that(or even thought about it), I wonder how effective it is...

come to think about it, can both crewmembers in AH-64 Apaches control their weapons with their helmets?

don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure they do. the pilot only has control over the 30mm chain gun not the other armament

So, who voted for the "Tomcat 21"?

Laughing

Actually it wasn't me.

Much as it pains me to say this... The Tomcat can't hit what it can't see! Even with the chin pod infra-red sight and Low Light Television system the Tomcat would have the same chance any other aircraft that has faced the Raptor, slim to none. I would have loved to see the Navy go with the Tomcat 21 instead of upgraded Hornets though.

F-14 + F119-PW-400 w/round 3D-LO nozzles would have been AWESOME! Twisted Evil

..but alas I still had to vote Raptor.

Don't think you'd ever get the RCS of a Tomcat down far enough to get close to the Raptor. The inlets are inline to the engine faces. (Big issue)

Sorry to say (and I did LOVE the F-14 too, even though it was Navy... ) the Tomcat's day has come and gone. Just wished the USN would have given a Tomcat or two to an organization that could have kept them flying for historical value. (minus the weapon's systems)

She was the last of Grumman's mighty cats Sad

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 Vs. F-14