Forum: Drones

Iraqi insurgents hacked US UAV



Search Search  Register Register  Private Messages Private Messages
guidelines Forum Guidelines
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.   
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Author Message
ATFS_Crash
PostPosted: Dec 18, 2009 - 01:27 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM
Posts: 760

Quote:
Iraqi insurgents hacked Predator drone feeds, U.S. official indicates
Washington (CNN) -- Insurgents were able to use a mass-market software program to view live feeds from U.S. military Predator drones monitoring targets in Iraq, a U.S. official indicated to CNN Thursday.

The breach by Iranian-backed Shiite militants was discovered late last year, according to the Wall Street Journal, which first reported the story. It was not denied by Pentagon officials.


Source and full story.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/17/drone.video.hacked/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

$26 Software Is Used to Breach Key Weapons in Iraq; Iranian Backing Suspected
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126102247889095011.html

While supposedly so far the only thing that is public; is the insurgents hacked is the feed; that's exactly one of the scenarios that I had mentioned; it's not that much of a leap to gain full control.

This is part of the reason that I'm against making airliners and a large percentage of our military forces to be RPVs. I feel as this bolsters my arguments that the commercial airliners should have a human pilot in the loop and that a significant percentage of our military aircraft should have a human pilot. I think this also bolsters my argument that remote control ability should not be commonly placed on commercial or a large proportion of our military.

_________________
How many F-22s and JSFs could have been bought with $700 billion? Correct that.

Make that $1.7 Trillion.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Sponsor
New postPosted: May 24, 2013 - 10:04 AM Back to top
F-16.net Sponsor





  Send private message  
 
Prinz_Eugn
PostPosted: Dec 18, 2009 - 01:41 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Aug 03, 2008 - 04:35 AM
Posts: 859

Status: Offline
Well, the control channels are presumably encrypted, or just plain proprietary. "Hacking"? Hardly. They were intercepting unencrypted data and looking at it. Easy as pie. It's our fault for not putting a higher priority on fixing that little problem earlier.

_________________
"A visitor from Mars could easily pick out the civilized nations. They have the best implements of war."
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
ATFS_Crash
PostPosted: Dec 18, 2009 - 02:47 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM
Posts: 760

Prinz_Eugn wrote:
Well, the control channels are presumably encrypted, or just plain proprietary. "Hacking"? Hardly. They were intercepting unencrypted data and looking at it. Easy as pie. It's our fault for not putting a higher priority on fixing that little problem earlier.

I think they use the word "hacking" was used because a hodgepodge of hardware and software were used to listen in in a way that the hardware and software wasn't supposedly supposed to be used. Being able to listen in can be used tactically as you should know. Allegedly similar forms of hacking have been done before, with military strategic value. Wink

_________________
How many F-22s and JSFs could have been bought with $700 billion? Correct that.

Make that $1.7 Trillion.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
parrothead
PostPosted: Dec 18, 2009 - 05:06 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 3K
Elite 3K


Joined: May 11, 2004 - 12:04 AM
Posts: 3280

Status: Offline
I'd like to say I'm surprised, but after seeing the small amount of equipment needed to grab the feed from a Predator at Nellis, it makes sense. They had a Predator about 10 miles away at 20k feet with the live feed on a computer and a TV. I'm just surprised that they didn't encrypt the feed.



PredatorReceivingStation.jpg
 Description:
Sorry you can't see the image on the display, but this is all you need in the way of "official" hardware to see the feed from a Predator
 Filesize:  112.42 KB
 Viewed:  6071 Time(s)

PredatorReceivingStation.jpg



_________________
No plane on Sunday, maybe be one come Monday...
www.parrotheadjeff.com
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
SpudmanWP
PostPosted: Dec 18, 2009 - 06:12 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 3K
Elite 3K


Joined: Oct 12, 2006 - 08:18 PM
Posts: 4274
Location: California
Status: Offline
IIRC, That shoebox sized object on the right is a signal encryption unit, not sure of the model.

_________________
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
runi_dk
PostPosted: Dec 18, 2009 - 03:35 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Enthusiast
Enthusiast


Joined: Feb 08, 2009 - 02:03 PM
Posts: 76
Location: Copenhagen Denmark
Status: Offline
The encryption gives delay the operators before the receive the life-feed. It's a question of priority. Take the risk of having bad guys looking
or loosing reaction time when needed.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Guysmiley
PostPosted: Dec 18, 2009 - 10:58 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 1K
Elite 1K


Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM
Posts: 1496

ATFS_Crash wrote:
it's not that much of a leap to gain full control.


I disagree entirely. This is not the satellite feed they're receiving, this is the ROVER feed that is broadcast omni-directionally for the express purpose of making it easy for troops on the ground to receive. In the Predator this transmission can be turned on or off.

I'd think encryption would be a good idea from a tactical point of view, but I'd also guess key control is difficult when you're dealing with the entire Army and Marine Corps.

This is not, I repeat not in the realm of jihadis haxx0ring a Predator and taking it over. Hell the Litening and Sniper pods have the same capability. Nobody is going to be taking over a TGP equipped F-16 anytime soon.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Asif
PostPosted: Dec 19, 2009 - 12:09 AM Reply with quote Back to top
F-16.net Editor
F-16.net Editor


Joined: Aug 23, 2003 - 01:02 PM
Posts: 2799

The Times wrote:

Islamic insurgents hack into CIA state-of-the-art Predator drones
Chris Ayres
From The Times
December 18, 2009

Predator drones used by the CIA against Islamic militants have been hacked into by insurgents using nothing more sophisticated than a $25.95 (£16) off-the-shelf software, it was revealed last night.

Although the insurgents were not able to control the $20 million aircraft, typically armed with Hellfire missiles and flown over the battlefields of Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, they could - video feeds beamed back to US control stations through their electronic “eyeballs”.

The hackers’ success raises the disturbing possibility of the Predators being taken over and used to attack US or British forces, or perhaps even domestic targets. Although Predator aircraft are usually flown by remote control from thousands of miles away, some are kept for testing at US Airforce bases such as Creech, near Las Vegas.

Speaking off-the-record, senior American defence officials confirmed that the Predators had been compromised and admitted that the video feeds could give insurgents critical information about US targets overseas, including buildings, roads, and other facilities.

The Wall Street Journal reported that the hackers were Iranian-backed Shias in Iraq, who used easily downloadable software, such as SkyGrabber, to capture the video feeds, which had not been protected by military encryption.

It is thought that the US military has known about the vulnerability of Predators for more than a decade but assumed that insurgents would not be sophisticated enough to exploit it. Then in December 2008, the military apprehended a Shia militant in Iraq whose laptop contained files of intercepted video feeds. Seven months later they found pirated feeds on other computers in Afghanistan.

The Pentagon is now scrambling to encrypt all its Predator video from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Dale Meyerrose, a former chief information officer for US intelligence, compared the problem to criminals listening to police scanners. The Predator forms part of a growing arsenal of unmanned aircraft that includes the Reaper and the Raven. Some of the latest Reapers have been fitted with a new, high-tech video sensor system which provides a wide-angle view of the battlefield.

About 800 French Legionnaires backed by 200 US special forces and Afghan soldiers have begun an offensive in a valley in Afghanistan where the Taleban killed ten French soldiers last year. French officials said that several American soldiers were wounded in the in the battle in Uzbin Valley, east of Kabul.

source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 961254.ece

_________________
Asif Shamim
F-16.net Editorial staff & Patch Gallery Administration
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
LinkF16SimDude
PostPosted: Dec 19, 2009 - 12:13 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 2K
Elite 2K


Joined: Jan 31, 2004 - 07:18 PM
Posts: 2365

Status: Offline
This AP report via YouTube says (at the very end) that video feeds from all the AORs are now being encrypted. One wonders if it were that easy to start the encryption process why it wasn't done sooner. Hindsight I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu1zwndO ... r_embedded

_________________
Why does "monosyllabic" have 5 syllables?
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
ATFS_Crash
PostPosted: Dec 19, 2009 - 01:43 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM
Posts: 760

Guysmiley wrote:
ATFS_Crash wrote:
it's not that much of a leap to gain full control.


I disagree entirely. This is not the satellite feed they're receiving, this is the ROVER feed that is broadcast omni-directionally for the express purpose of making it easy for troops on the ground to receive.

I feel I largely stand corrected. I falsely assumed it was a satellite link that was tapped. This is not as big of a story as I first thought. I still feel there is a threat but not as much as I first thought. I think it is a much bigger leap to gain control than I first thought.

Djcross already corrected me on another message board. Dinner is crow.

_________________
How many F-22s and JSFs could have been bought with $700 billion? Correct that.

Make that $1.7 Trillion.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Habu
PostPosted: Dec 20, 2009 - 06:49 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 2K
Elite 2K


Joined: Oct 21, 2003 - 06:12 AM
Posts: 2738

Status: Offline
Quote:
it's not that much of a leap to gain full control.


Negative. That will probably never happen. Like was said, it was only the non-encrypted RVT feed that they received, not hacked into. And don't think that all UAVs use satellite feed. In fact, a majority of them don't. Be that as it may, in order to gain control of the aircraft, far too much software and hardware would be needed to do so. The media has sensationalized it far beyond proportions.

_________________
Do your homework, Tiger!
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
ford2go
PostPosted: Dec 21, 2009 - 09:03 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Enthusiast
Enthusiast


Joined: Jul 10, 2007 - 07:13 PM
Posts: 53

Status: Offline
Other articles that I've read about this state that the feeds were not encrypted because of the rapid deployment of the original UAVs. They further said that originally it was assumed that no one would have the equipment to tap into the signals mainly because of primitive technology.
(This is in the mainstram media and USAF sources are quoted)

The issue now is that to encrypt requires replacement of all of the gear that's out there. It's being addressed, but they don't want to cut off current users during the transition.

The same issue exists with manned aircraft that can broadcast video to the ground troops.

Sounds like the equipment is definitely not under any danger of being hacked, but information is leaking out. This is an issue that needs to be addressed, and it will apparently take some time to do it correctly.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Habu
PostPosted: Dec 21, 2009 - 07:06 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 2K
Elite 2K


Joined: Oct 21, 2003 - 06:12 AM
Posts: 2738

Status: Offline
Oh no doubt. But the media, as usual, instead of explaining the issue, are quick to jump to conclusions. They were able to receive video became a slippery slope to taking control of a UAV. Aye aye aye...

_________________
Do your homework, Tiger!
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:     
Jump to:  
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic