Forum: F-22A Raptor

Enthusiast Joined: Apr 23, 2009 - 08:44 AM Posts: 97

I assume that everyone has seen the traffic on this but am curious as to other opinions.

My own view, for a variety of political and strategic issues, is that its a nonsense media event

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I may have missed something but I don't understand the question.

Enthusiast Joined: Apr 23, 2009 - 08:44 AM Posts: 97

VprWzl wrote:

I may have missed something but I don't understand the question.

apols, assumed everyone had seen this floating around:

http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/UAE ... Rafale/963

UAE: Lockheed Martin, F-22 Raptor and Rafale (40$)Add to cart
Posted on: Sat, Dec 12, 2009

Lockheed Martin is said to be trying to convince the Emiratis to buy the F-22 Raptor rather than the Rafale aircraft. The following 406-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Emirati officials are reacting. Note that the F-22 Raptor, made by Lockheed Martin and Boeing, uses stealth technology and was displayed at Dubai Air Show last month.

Personally, the TacReport is about as reliable as DEBKA or APA's web site on military issues, but it did appear nonetheless.

IIRC it also appeared in AvWeek.

I wonder how the Japanese feel about it LOL

I have been curious about the reported UAE Rafale acquisition interest... would anyone have any insights: as to whether this would be more of a diversified, 'political' and 'synergistic' Industrial-cooperative interest.. to balance the portfolio so to speak with regards to their already deployed Block 60s? Wouldn't it seem to make more sense expanding the F-16 block 60 fleet?

Re: UAE F-22 FMS story, perhaps this is merely part negotiating gimmick, for hypothetical Rafale offer? Unfortunately for LM, a feasible block IV F-35A timeframe (albeit, w/unknown costs) would probably be outside UAE's acquisition requirements anyway?

If we "can't" sell Raptors to the Japanese or Australians due to well rehearsed reasons, it's hard to imagine selling to the UAE.

gf0012-aust wrote:

VprWzl wrote:

I may have missed something but I don't understand the question.

apols, assumed everyone had seen this floating around:

http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/UAE ... Rafale/963

UAE: Lockheed Martin, F-22 Raptor and Rafale (40$)Add to cart
Posted on: Sat, Dec 12, 2009

Lockheed Martin is said to be trying to convince the Emiratis to buy the F-22 Raptor rather than the Rafale aircraft. The following 406-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Emirati officials are reacting. Note that the F-22 Raptor, made by Lockheed Martin and Boeing, uses stealth technology and was displayed at Dubai Air Show last month.

Personally, the TacReport is about as reliable as DEBKA or APA's web site on military issues, but it did appear nonetheless.

IIRC it also appeared in AvWeek.

Well has anyone paid the $40 to read it and care to post it if they have? One can get entire books for much cheaper then this and they want someone to pay $40 for a 1 page personal opinion writeup? geeez

Beazz

Loader2088 wrote:

If we "can't" sell Raptors to the Japanese or Australians due to well rehearsed reasons, it's hard to imagine selling to the UAE.

I assumed that everyone would have read by now, although judging from many posts I have seen, this may not be the case. Although the law has yet to be changed, the Defense Appropriations Bill signed by Presidnt Obama on Oct. 28 requires that SecDef Gates prepare a report on the feasibilty of an exportable F-22A. This report is due no later than the 28th of April, 2010. For the excerpt from the full text of the bill, jump over to my thread titled F-22 For Export? Although it has a long way to go, there is at least the possibility of the legal roadblocks dissappearing, as far as the international politics involved, I'll leave that for people far more wise than I Wink

NKDP

npeterman18 wrote:

Loader2088 wrote:

If we "can't" sell Raptors to the Japanese or Australians due to well rehearsed reasons, it's hard to imagine selling to the UAE.

I assumed that everyone would have read by now, although judging from many posts I have seen, this may not be the case. Although the law has yet to be changed, the Defense Appropriations Bill signed by Presidnt Obama on Oct. 28 requires that SecDef Gates prepare a report on the feasibilty of an exportable F-22A. This report is due no later than the 28th of April, 2010. For the excerpt from the full text of the bill, jump over to my thread titled F-22 For Export? Although it has a long way to go, there is at least the possibility of the legal roadblocks dissappearing, as far as the international politics involved, I'll leave that for people far more wise than I Wink

NKDP

I strongly hope you're right about this, and I have no doubt the bill requires the SecDef to prepare such a report. However, from everything I know about Mr Gates and his long history regarding the Raptor, I fear I know very well what his report will say. CSAF Gen Schwartz has already disparaged the idea more than once, and he certainly knows what happened to his predecessor.

Well, considering the fact that the F-22 is such a taboo in the current moment, it may be a good idea to let foreign orders keep Lockheed churning out raptors in some form while we wait for the economy to recover, and for the need/want for F-22s to return. As far as the SecDef and his history with the F-22, he has gone on the record saying that he would not oppose exporting the F-22 (to Australia), simply stating that Congress would have to change the law.
Unfortunately, only time will tell. However, you can bet your tail that Imma be waiting with baited breath for April 28th, 2010

The Amendment simply states that none of the funding may be used to develope an export variant of the F-22. It does not ban sales. The approved export munitions list does that...the Raptor is simply not on it...for obvious reasons.

Quote:

while we wait for the economy to recover,

Unfortunately, even when the economy 'recovers', in relative terms at least, there will likely not be some mythical 'ramping up' of the Defense budget (esp. procurement portion) from these levels. This is a widely misconceived notion, some might assess.

USAF will be lucky to maintain current budgets (TY $) for next 5 yrs and beyond. Most likely, within 6 yrs (eg, when Soc Security is expected to start costing virtual mandatory budgets - i.e. dipping into funds which aren't there in order to cover interest), there will be forced reductions in Defense and other discretionary spending.

The grand scheme of mandatory spending growth will inevitably require such forced, mass cuts of their own as well (as debt ceilings become unsustainable), but the fact is that USAF/DoD will need to make much more calculated, cost-effective and core national defense-dictated acquisition policy. In short, yes, the party is over, the crude awakening begins and they/we will need to do more with less.

Re: the tacair recapitalization part of this equation? It will definitely become dicier over the next couple years as certain realities achieve critical mass. And where this leads USAF vis-a-vis future F-22 buys is truly miniscule to the greater national defense/budget issues, which Congress are apparently just starting to figure out and ponder. (the status quo being the 'death by a thousand cuts' sad reality).

gf0012-aust wrote:

VprWzl wrote:

I may have missed something but I don't understand the question.

apols, assumed everyone had seen this floating around:

http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/UAE ... Rafale/963

UAE: Lockheed Martin, F-22 Raptor and Rafale (40$)Add to cart
Posted on: Sat, Dec 12, 2009

Lockheed Martin is said to be trying to convince the Emiratis to buy the F-22 Raptor rather than the Rafale aircraft. The following 406-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Emirati officials are reacting. Note that the F-22 Raptor, made by Lockheed Martin and Boeing, uses stealth technology and was displayed at Dubai Air Show last month.

Personally, the TacReport is about as reliable as DEBKA or APA's web site on military issues, but it did appear nonetheless.

IIRC it also appeared in AvWeek.

What if LM is really trying to sell them F-35? The F-22s show them the value of stealth and LM convinces them to wait and buy F-35 instead of Rafale.

Thumper3181 wrote:

What if LM is really trying to sell them F-35? The F-22s show them the value of stealth and LM convinces them to wait and buy F-35 instead of Rafale.

Kind of what I was thinking too, LM trying to show them the potential of the F-35 but demoing the F-22. On the other hand this story could be just a grossly misquoted source or rumor whiich to me seems the most likely.

For some reason US fighter companies always go legths in making fantatstic propositions whenever the Rafale is also in competition. The later being used as negotiation leverage on the part of the client side wich inevitably chooses otherwise. Just see what is hapening in Brazil and what hapened in other export attermps the french were involved in, always loosing at the last moment when the rafale seems to be favourite, BAAAAM, another manufacturer wins out of the blue.

Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-22's for the UAE