Forum: General

Although this is obviously not strictly limited to the F-16, I wonder why there are so few black fighter pilots. Proportional to the U.S. general population, blacks are "overrepresented" in the U.S. armed forces, but when it comes to fighter pilots, it is exceedingly rare to find one. In contrast, I've been seeing a bunch of female fighter pilots, which is great. But it is disconcerting to see so few black pilots. Is this due to institutionalized racism, as is often the case among cops and firefighters? Or is it a similar situation as in hockey, skiing and swimming, sports that for some reason simply don't seem to attract many blacks? Thoughts?

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Blacks are represented as a percentage of total force nearly exactly as they are represented in the total U.S. population. With that said for every 10 pilots you see 1 - 1.5 of then should be Black, statistically speaking. There is no racism, institutional or otherwise, occurring here.

References--

Current service demographics: http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/news/st ... =123159448

U.S. population distribution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography ... _ethnicity (yes, I know it is wiki but it is referenced to a survey done by the Census Bureau)

*edit* For every 10 Airmen 1 - 1.5 will be black. Numbers are indicative of total force.

MechFromHell wrote:

Blacks are represented as a percentage of total force nearly exactly as they are represented in the total U.S. population. With that said for every 10 pilots you see 1 - 1.5 of then should be Black, statistically speaking. There is no racism, institutional or otherwise, occurring here.

References--

Current service demographics: http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/news/st ... =123159448

U.S. population distribution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography ... _ethnicity (yes, I know it is wiki but it is referenced to a survey done by the Census Bureau)

*edit* For every 10 Airmen 1 - 1.5 will be black. Numbers are indicative of total force.

Thank you for those stats. However, there is no statistical information as to how many of these airmen are actually pilots, as opposed to crew dogs, cooks, security, etc. Do you know of any statistical information regarding the racial makeup of pilots and, specifically, fighter pilots?

No, I do not know of a source where racial information is broken down by individual occupations within the Air Force. I may exist but I don't know where??

Why does it matter?

The pilot selection process does not discriminate by skin color.

If you are to ask a question like this, you need to expand it to other ethnic groups aswell - asian, hispanic, etc. etc.
Only then will you possibly get close to the answer you are looking for. But simply asking based on african-american ethnisity will never give you a good answer, no matter how you try. Sorry!

To be quite honest, I am a bit fed up with the continius discussions going on in various nations around the world on racism. When it all comes down to it, you are your own good fortune, and you can be what you want to be if you put your heart, soul and determination into it Cheers

silversmok3 wrote:

Why does it matter?

The pilot selection process does not discriminate by skin color.

Well, about 20 years ago there was nary a black quarterback or coach in the NFL. Today there are loads of them. I don't think that's because blacks have suddenly developed the aptitudes necessary to take on quarterbacking and coaching roles. And I wonder why there appear to be very few black fighter pilots. Me thinks it has to do with the institutionalized culture - as was the case in the NFL prior to the advent of black quarterbacks and coaches - but I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking. And, yes, I should say it matters greatly.

Boman wrote:

If you are to ask a question like this, you need to expand it to other ethnic groups aswell - asian, hispanic, etc. etc.
Only then will you possibly get close to the answer you are looking for. But simply asking based on african-american ethnisity will never give you a good answer, no matter how you try. Sorry!

You are right, and that forms part of my inquiry into the matter. But blacks have had a lot more time to integrate and thus far don't seem to have done so widely into the fighter pilot ranks, and I wonder why. Women, on the other hand, who were only allowed to fly in combat a little more than a decade ago (in the U.S.), seem to have proliferated quite quickly. That seems very interesting to me.

Quote:

To be quite honest, I am a bit fed up with the continius discussions going on in various nations around the world on racism. When it all comes down to it, you are your own good fortune, and you can be what you want to be if you put your heart, soul and determination into it Cheers

I respect your opinion. However, it is one unlikely to be held by those who may have encountered their path substantially blocked by an institutionalized culture that resists the incorporation of elements foreign to its makeup.

sextusempiricus wrote:

Quote:

To be quite honest, I am a bit fed up with the continius discussions going on in various nations around the world on racism. When it all comes down to it, you are your own good fortune, and you can be what you want to be if you put your heart, soul and determination into it Cheers

I respect your opinion. However, it is one unlikely to be held by those who may have encountered their path substantially blocked by an institutionalized culture that resists the incorporation of elements foreign to its makeup.

As a black man who is working towards being an aviator, the problem is NOT institutional.

The institution could care less about your skin color. The institution, in my case the USAF, cares about qualified and effective pilots.

Now, to offer a theory as to why there aren't as many African-American pilots in the mix, id put it down to cultural interest. Most of my black peers value money, family, fame, and social status over being an aviator. While I dont have the resources to verify this statistically, few people of my ethnicity care about being a pilot.

I assure you, race has absolutely zero to do with one's individual ability to become a pilot.Its about your individual motvation and skills, plus a good helping of luck!

sextusempiricus wrote:

silversmok3 wrote:

Why does it matter?

The pilot selection process does not discriminate by skin color.

Well, about 20 years ago there was nary a black quarterback or coach in the NFL. Today there are loads of them. I don't think that's because blacks have suddenly developed the aptitudes necessary to take on quarterbacking and coaching roles. And I wonder why there appear to be very few black fighter pilots. Me thinks it has to do with the institutionalized culture - as was the case in the NFL prior to the advent of black quarterbacks and coaches - but I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking. And, yes, I should say it matters greatly.

Well the first question you have to ask is how large is the pool of black officers in the USAF/USN/USMC? You'd have to demonstrate that those services prevented blacks from entering their ranks as officers, seeing as how fighter pilots are all officers. Unless you can do that, then this discussion is akin to asking why there's an under representation of blacks playing bluegrass music.

It is humorous to me that you talk about such things when your screen name is Sextus Empiricus. Your theory that there are few Black fighter pilots being based solely on your own observation is a perfect example or induction fallacy, one of the very things that Sextus wrote about.

Fewer black men and women go to college than their white counter-parts. Therefore, fewer become officers. Which means that fewer become pilots. Which means that fewer become fighter pilots.

If we assume that there is no bias in the selection process (either for or against), we simply have to assume that fewer are eligible to apply versus per the population of their demographic.

It's basically like the lack of black doctors...

On the other hand, more black people enlist per capita than white people... IIRC.

You know its post like this that piss's me off to no end. WHO CARES WHAT COLOR A PERSONS F.CKEN SKIN COLOR IS, CAN HE OR SHE FLY WITH THE BEST OF EM. You know what, the real reason why there is fewer black fighter pilots, is because of the type of person that the Military wants controling a EXTREMELY EXPENSVE DEADLY equipment. Its not as easy to just become a fighter pilot, when you grow up in the ghetto, or endulge most your time in sports to go to college, and the culture which most black males endulge, and socialize in, its not appealing to become a fighter pilot, and the urban lifestyle for many, makes it that much harder. You must understand the roles models, for i would say make up about 80 percent of American black males these days. Sports, mostly football, and baskettball, then Rap music, followed with, the presumption that they must become Street smart, and get caught up in the ghetto fab life style, then lastly religion. Alot of black males join the military, because they want to better there lifes, and it gives you a OUT to become more of a man, especialy with the money, and school programs offered, since alot of male blacks, do not go to college unless in sports, but there is alot of money the government, and private organizations are spendin to send minorities to college, to appear less racist, and that should help increase the number of black officers, without prior enlistment not to mention the acadamy is VERY strick with rules, that one can enter, and again, because of the average black males culture, they fail to meet alot of thoughs requirements. You want o change the numbers start with the culture, oterwse dnt complain.

callsignthumper wrote:

You know its post like this that piss's me off to no end. WHO CARES WHAT COLOR A PERSONS F.CKEN SKIN COLOR IS, CAN HE OR SHE FLY WITH THE BEST OF EM. You know what, the real reason why there is fewer black fighter pilots, is because of the type of person that the Military wants controling a EXTREMELY EXPENSVE DEADLY equipment. Its not as easy to just become a fighter pilot, when you grow up in the ghetto, or endulge most your time in sports to go to college, and the culture which most black males endulge, and socialize in, its not appealing to become a fighter pilot, and the urban lifestyle for many, makes it that much harder.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

Statistically as a black male, I have a better chance of going to jail then graduating college.
Not to say that anyone has it easy, but for many black men(and women) they come from family and living conditions so adverse that they're glad just to have a constant paycheck and a purposeful job. Until you have lived through those circumstances( circumstances I can hardly post in a way anyone here will read and understand ) , its hard for anyone to see why someone wouldnt be interested in 'climbing the ladder'.

Im white, but have black family members, aunts uncles cousins, and i also have half brother, and sister, who is white, and phillipeano mixed. My wife's background consist of dominatly white, with native american, and black, so i have no problem discussing the truth, because i unlike many have the oppertunity, to endulge with so many differant lifestyles.

Forum: General

Lack of black fighter pilots