Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Ummm... no. Turkey is very westernized. The government is hated by Muslim extremists because it's so secular, in fact. Plus there's a lot of remaining hatred towards Turkey because it (through the Ottoman Empire) ruled large swaths of the middle east until WWI. Sure they were Muslims (depending on who you ask- Wahhabists would call them weak-minded heretics), but they were still viewed as oppressors.

While it may be easy to stick all Muslim countries into one giant block of "THEM," that in no way reflects reality.

For last notes I say, it would be wise for everyone to think, how he would have acted logically if he were in the place of the ones he is about to accuse.

Salutations from Turkiye; from ancient ages to today, A proud nation of warriors at heart who want nothing but peace but for whatever reasons of fate cannot get rid of wars happening around them. A member of NATO who have more than enough proven that heroics are not accomplised by words but by deeds, such as in Korea. A worthy ally for any sane country whom she trusts, in a worthy alliance.

Thanks for that very well expressed sentiment and like-minded respects should be returned (as with hopeful, joint-produced F-35 work - since no F-22s ordered by Turkiye, lol). But your comments are wise and Humbling actually, as is our collective modern history.

And Beazz, bro... without getting 'over the line' into politics as you know what happens to these threads haha... but Turkey is an emerging 'Independent' power in the region, apparently reinventing itself (and shifting gears in part due to being turned down by EU), while maximizing on geographical and diversified political potential to enhance its strategic relevance. I will link this article for a pretty objective, eye-opening snap shot imho, to help better understand current/recent ongoings.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Moscow_Vis ... 27504.html

(and just an FYI, grande, the mods here will in fact end the thread if geopolitics, etc takes over the Topic)

I'd only recommend for B, myself and grande to continue any discourse in PM, if of interest Cheers-

I would suggest to you that over the past 15 years or so Turkey is becoming more and more Pro Islamic and it's population and certainly it political leadership is becoming more anti western. The very reason the US was not allowed to use Turkey as a staging ground to invade Iraq from the north in 2003 was purely because of the uproar from it Islamic population to not allow the US to attack an *Islamic* nation from their soil. Yes, they have allowed us to use air bases to supply our troops there since then. But even that is under constant critisism and anger from the what I would call anti western Islamic populace. The trend has been and is continuing to be anti western in Turkey is all I am saying. I see nothing to indicate that is going to reverse itself.

Beazz

To try and get back in the general vicinity of the topic, I had a quick thought. Why wouldn't an export of the F-22 in an approved, suitably down-graded form be MORE Desireable for export from the American point of view. Seeing as the F-35 design is what, a full decade or so newer than the F-22, wouldn't the advances that it likely represents be more sensitive from the standpoint of exporting? While I won't profess to understand all the ins and outs of their specific radars ane EW systems, could't Lockheed-Martin fit either the AN/APG-79 or AN/APG-80, both have which have been approved for export? It seems like It would be fairly simple to generate a package that is essentially like the avionics of say a Block 60 Viper or a Block II Super Hornet, simply rolled into the advanced F-22 airframe. This would mirror what the initial versions of the other 5th Gen (maybe -5 Gen) aircraft is doing, the PAK-FA. For the initial versions to be exported, the PAK-FA will carry the same avionics as the "New" Su-35BM. It seems like that is a suitable way to support your allies, watch your technologies' security, and provide money for aircraft producers through export orders. Anyhow, just a thought.

NKDP

So what is it that the F22 has that is so top secret it cannot be let go of? All I can see is it can supercruise at mach 1.6+ and the F35 cannot. Surely that is not the reason. It seems in every other aspect but brute power the F35 will be superior to the F22.
Beazz

The F-22 was not designed to be exportable. It has our best RAM & RAS techniques and, more importantly, it does not have any anti-tampering technology in the hardware.

This is why some people are up in arms about "not having the code" for the F-35. Without the code, you cannot see how the magic is done, especially in LPI, secure comms, EW, etc. The anti-tampering technology built into the F-35 keeps the ability to replicate, or circumvent, our tech out of others hands.

And yes, it would be quite expensive to design and test on top of the increased F-35 costs.

Okay, forgive my ignorance, but let me ask this then. So, hypothetically speaking, could the USA not roll the F-35's tamper-proof avionics, and less advanced RAM into/onto the F-22 airframe? I understand that Development/integration might be expensive, but could that not solve that potential problem?