Forum: F-22A Raptor

During a recent day's talk,my firend said something as follow:
"Where the ALR 94 is different is that it estimates the range and even calculate it precisely as the enemmy get closer. According to Journal of Electronic Defense (can't post a link since the site is no longer free of charge!) the ALR 94 can detect a fighter radar at ~ 500 km. As the enemy get closer, in order to find the range, knowing the exact direction the ALR 94 tells the APG 77 where to look (that's where sensor fusion pays off) and this one send a narrow beam towards this direction, for a fraction of a second (that' where AESA pays off--no chance for the enemy RWR to detect it). In this way, the range and speed are calculated too. Closer, when the target is in AMRAAM firing range, the JED states clearly that the ALR 94 can offer a firing solution alone, without any help from the APG 77.
The RWR/AL-94 is one of the much more 'top-secret' aspects of the Raptor. The impression I have after years of reading up on the topic is that this is one of the fundemental avionics advantages the 22 has over other aircraft, including the JSF; its where a lot of money and research has been put into and also one of the reasons the Raptor pilots claim the public only knows about 40% of the aircrafts capabilities. There was a video interview with a Raptor pilot on http://www.f-22raptor.com/ who made the 40% / 60 % claim and he was talking directly about the aircrafts passive detection techniques(Not the LPI 77) being the truely impressive and top secret aspect of the Raptor, over the stealth, supercruise and maneuverability aspects. Its ability to locate and track all kinds of emissions throughout EM spectrum, from lasers to radar signals to (infrared?); and then cue the AMRAAM."

While I know ALR-94 is a kind of RWR array,I really doubt such statemnet.Even RWR can range a target,the solution should be a range in a 2D plane.The relative altitude can not be acquired.To get a range in a 3D space,I think we need 3 RWRs at least one of them should not in a plate in which the other two belong. Wish I could get an answer.
Thx in advance~

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... sounds of crickets in the night......

It has been publicly stated that the F-22's RwR can initiate an AMRAAM engagement. No specific details have been given. The F-35 has also made the same claim.

As for the laser detection, if that were a feature it would be of the MLD not the RwR.

SpudmanWP wrote:

It has been publicly stated that the F-22's RwR can initiate an AMRAAM engagement. No specific details have been given. The F-35 has also made the same claim.

As for the laser detection, if that were a feature it would be of the MLD not the RwR.

Hi,pal."pulicly stated"Where is the source?Would u give me a link?Thx

Not unless we are all a bunch of Limp Wristed, Latent Commies or Towel Craniums would we answer that question!

Lets all presume it can do all that and look sexy and move on with our day.

I don't wish to discuss Radar(s) capabilities and passive detection, tracking and tactics etc, but as many critics of F-22 opine, the NEZ range of the Raptor's current BVR munition is a relevant topic. It may not be until 2015 +/-, something which many are critical about, when Increment 3.2 will supposedly get longer ranged AIM-120D to better match the the Radar's performance. Personally, I support a METEOR class system adquate for Raptor's bays and perhaps development of an AIM-variant NCADE, as in ASAP. For a BVR (very relative) engagement by either F-22 or F-35 can very quickly become a knife fight when closing speeds hit a certain mach (defeating the purpose of only a few VLO being required?)... e.g., if targeting data reveals a different scenario after the first couple shots are launched, etc. IMO.

PhillyGuy wrote:

Lets all presume it can do all that and look sexy and move on with our day.

Sometimes I wonder if some of our pals at various OT school are being given class assignments to see how much can be learned on a particular technical subject matter X. Can't hurt to try, eh. sheesh.

Pretty much.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-9268.html

Read that thread.

cobzz wrote:

Pretty much.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-9268.html

Read that thread.

Thx ，man。There's helpful。

It just sucks to be the enemy, doesn't it?

I mean, say you're in Sukhoi's shiny new Su-35BM and you're looking for an intruding Raptor. If you want even a remote chance at detecting it, you'll need to have your Irbis-E PESA buzzing at full power. But you've just given yourself away! You get AMRAAM'd in short order.

I believe that I've also read that the Rafale's RWR offers the ability to track radar positions as well. Can anyone confirm this?

billsnavycareer wrote:

While I know ALR-94 is a kind of RWR array,I really doubt such statemnet.Even RWR can range a target,the solution should be a range in a 2D plane.The relative altitude can not be acquired.To get a range in a 3D space,I think we need 3 RWRs at least one of them should not in a plate in which the other two belong. Wish I could get an answer.
Thx in advance~

Well F-15's Loral ALR-56 had the ability to find azimuth, range and relative altitude of an identified beacon. Generally a weapon can be launched against such radio source.
Although classified, it's difficult to imagine F22's RWR can't match that.
The only problem would pose AESA radars, which can shift output power rapidly and therefore spoil range finding.

geogen wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if some of our pals at various OT school are being given class assignments...

Sometimes I wonder if some of our NOT PALS over in Pyongyang or Tehran are being given class assignments to pretend to be American, get chummy with the boys swappin' war stories, and find out information that way.

I refuse to believe that anyone "in the know" on this site would be dumb enough to give classified information away...especially off of a question that clearly involves classified equipment.

BTW, I will be watching this one very close. I'm not involved with Federal Law Enforcement, but let's just say that I know a guy who knows a guy (and that's no Bravo Sierra folks).

What I can guarantee to anyone, is that a call to him will get the ball rolling, and some men in suits will be visiting your front door soon. This is NOT, I say again, NOT an idle threat, and you DO NOT want to try me on this!

Consider this your one warning shot across the bow.

To those of you are in a position to do something about these "spies":

I hope you're watching them on the down-low to see if they might be dumb enough to let something slip (wishful thinking). Maybe someone can put a dent in the various foreign conspiracies that take advantage of our open, trusting society to compromise our security and safety.

I don't wanna know what's being done about it unless there's something I can do to help. Just weighing in and rendering a salute to the guys watching our backs.

Jetnerd Salute

The raptor can also fire its photon torpedoes while cloaked at speeds up to warp 3.4, duh. It does the Kessel run in 4.2 Parsecs and does .1 past lightspeed. The inertial dampeners mean that when a pilots pulls 12 Gs he only feels 1.2. Yes, the F-22 has some magical capabilities. Imagine the early 60s and describing a radar that can look down and track low flying cruise missiles and engage half a dozen of them? Or a radar with a non moving antenna? Heck, describe a Jet fighter to Eddie Rickenbacker! some day all the Raptors Gee-Wizz tech will be commonplace.

Forum: F-22A Raptor

Can Raptor shoot an AMRAAM by RWR information?