Forum: F-22A Raptor

Hi guys,

The game is ... over and President OBAMA won the match ...
OK RAPTOR is a cold war jet, OK US forces are going to receive F-35 ...
OK we can hope that F-22 will be updated (AIM-9X AIM-120D ...)

but only 126 PAA vs potential ennemies (look at RPC or even RUSSIA) ...
I believe it's the beginning of the end for US air superiority ...

F-35 vs SU-30/35 ... no chance for US guys (?)
I hope I'm wrong ...

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juve57 wrote:

Hi guys,

The game is ... over and President OBAMA won the match ...
OK RAPTOR is a cold war jet, OK US forces are going to receive F-35 ...
OK we can hope that F-22 will be updated (AIM-9X AIM-120D ...)

but only 126 PAA vs potential ennemies (look at RPC or even RUSSIA) ...
I believe it's the beginning of the end for US air superiority ...

F-35 vs SU-30/35 ... no chance for US guys (?)
I hope I'm wrong ...

Although I am in favor of many more Raptors, why would you think a SU-30-anything would be better then the F35? My bet is the SUX and Migs will still be slaughtered like sheep if they find themselves going up against Americans in F35s. The F35 may not be AS good as the F22 in a2a, but it's still gonna be better then any other plane in the sky at it and second ONLY to the F22.

beazz

Juve57 you dont know sh*t. Have you even read up on the capabilities of the 35? Do some research. Deuces.

Beazz wrote:

juve57 wrote:

Hi guys,

The game is ... over and President OBAMA won the match ...
OK RAPTOR is a cold war jet, OK US forces are going to receive F-35 ...
OK we can hope that F-22 will be updated (AIM-9X AIM-120D ...)

but only 126 PAA vs potential ennemies (look at RPC or even RUSSIA) ...
I believe it's the beginning of the end for US air superiority ...

F-35 vs SU-30/35 ... no chance for US guys (?)
I hope I'm wrong ...

Although I am in favor of many more Raptors, why would you think a SU-30-anything would be better then the F35? My bet is the SUX and Migs will still be slaughtered like sheep if they find themselves going up against Americans in F35s. The F35 may not be AS good as the F22 in a2a, but it's still gonna be better then any other plane in the sky at it and second ONLY to the F22.

beazz

As a matter of fact the odds are "not good" that either Russian (PAK-FA) nor Chinese (J-13 & J-14). Will field will a more capable 5th Generation Fighter than the F-35. So, US and Allied Air Superior is assured for the forseeable future........IMO Wink

16'shuaaa wrote:

Juve57 you dont know sh*t. Have you even read up on the capabilities of the 35? Do some research. Deuces.

Even then it is not an accurate way of assessing such a potential conflict. We all saw how spectacular the Russian Air Force, and military in general, performed against Georgia. Training, tactics, support systems, command & control, etc... are just as important as what's being flown.

PhillyGuy wrote:

16'shuaaa wrote:

Juve57 you dont know sh*t. Have you even read up on the capabilities of the 35? Do some research. Deuces.

Even then it is not an accurate way of assessing such a potential conflict. We all saw how spectacular the Russian Air Force, and military in general, performed against Georgia. Training, tactics, support systems, command & control, etc... are just as important as what's being flown.

True, the F-35 is just one piece of th puzzle.......Now add F-22's, AWACS, Growlers, UCAV's, etc. etc. etc.

Who wouldn't perform well against Georgia? The Rhoad Island National Guard could've done the job. As far as air combat goes, I still think our current F-16's and F-15s could perform well against the best Russia or China could throw against us. Our whole entire military is full of combat veterans, what does Russian and China have? If you ask me there's nothing spectacular about the Russian military, especially if they can hardly afford to buy the latest hardware their own industry produces.

Then again, we can barely afford to buy approx 200 F-22s, LOL! I just don't believe F-16s/F-15s/F-18s would do poorly against Su-..'s and Mig-..'s when our planes have AESA radars, JHMCS, AIM-9X's, AIM-120#'s, and fire breathing, red blooded, well trained American pilots in them. Give these same pilots the F-35# and I think the battle will be extremely lopsided in favor of the F-35.

Adding a ton of upgrades to our current fleet is neat and all.....but.....it still wont unfatigue the airframes. The damn things are getting more tired by the day. Nobody seems to pay much attention to that little fact. All anyone seems to care about is how many bells and whistles they have.

discofishing wrote:

Who wouldn't perform well against Georgia? The Rhoad Island National Guard could've done the job.

Sarcasm over the internet is a fine art they say. Russia performed well below the standard of a world power and had shortcomings from both machine and human elements.

cutlassracer wrote:

Adding a ton of upgrades to our current fleet is neat and all.....but.....it still wont unfatigue the airframes. The damn things are getting more tired by the day. Nobody seems to pay much attention to that little fact. All anyone seems to care about is how many bells and whistles they have.

Why do you think there is such a rush for F-35's???

While the block V F-35 'should', as currently envisioned, be a superb multi-role/Air-superiority replacement for F-16; the initially estimated block V squadrons could now be revised for estimated FOC status by around 2020-21 perhaps (given extrapolated delays being applied to future spiral block implementation as well). The even more superior F-35 A-A capable block VI (compared to any current fighter Increment/block on absolute terms), as popularly envisioned by many when talking F-35 strengths and capabilities on broad terms could realistically be 2-3 yrs beyond that.

As far as more F-22s replacing significant F-35s goes however, that is just not the physically viable mission or strategy even for the superior F-22 Increment 3.2+, given it's current run rates vs anticipated future F-35 volume. But the relevant aspects of the argument are still noted.

What is the more relevant strategic debate though: is if say 2x latest upgraded F-16 models forinstance, including possible AESA and slung IRST pod expected to be operational soon, JHMCS/HMD, AIM-9x II and AIM-120D could be a more valued, potent, stop-gap deterrent to complement the 85x unit fleet of future Increment 3.2 Raptors, (until multiple Block V/VI squadrons are FOC).. than say 1x Block III F-35 with only AIM-9x block I and AIM-120C-7 (and no IRST).

This must be urgently comprehended and debated accordingly, by U.S. Congress and USAF, in the opinion of many.

Debate's on. Salute

discofishing wrote:

Then again, we can barely afford to buy approx 200 F-22s, LOL!

Disagree.

The U.S. can afford to buy the necessary amount of Raptors the USAF requires if it so chooses. The unfortunate part is the current administration and the majority members of Congress unwilling to support further F-22 buys and instead using the monies for other "programs" and their political interest.

I agree to a certain extent. With all the money we had to throw at the banks to prevent them from failing, we could've had 2000 F-22's (at a price of $350 million, which is not the flyaway price but I'm being lenient to the critics and including spares, repairs, etc.) or 1,000 F-22's and $3.5 billion left over for other stuff. If you quote the actual flyaway price of F-22's ($142 million) the numbers look even better. We could have gotten 100 more planes and still had enough money left over to fund the F-35 speedup of production AND get more armor to our troops in Iraq and Afganistan. For all the hooplah about there being more money for our troops now, where's the effect? Have we sent more armor, weapons, ammo, ANYTING over there as a DIRECT result of savings from capping the F-22? Not that I know of.

For all the hooplah about there being more money for our troops now, where's the effect? Have we sent more armor, weapons, ammo, ANYTING over there as a DIRECT result of savings from capping the F-22? Not that I know of.[/quote]

And you're not going to. Contrary to what some on here like to preach, whatever the USAF saves from capping the F22 is going to go right back into other USAF programs that come out of the USAF piece of the pie, NOT the US ARMY!! The guys on the ground ain't gonna see so much as ONE bullet from F22 cost savings! Anyone who thinks they are going to take X amount of dollars that was going to go to the F22 that is now capped and transfer said X amount of dollars over to the US Army piece of the pie also most surely belives in the tooth fairy!

Beazz

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

The unfortunate part is the current administration and the majority members of Congress...............

Who represent the majority of the country's citizens whose quality of life was decimated by the previous administration's ineptitude and their "political interest".

Get a grip.

OL

Forum: F-22A Raptor

187 and STOP !!