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What will replace the Raptor?



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That_Engine_Guy
PostPosted: Aug 02, 2009 - 07:20 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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f-15e wrote:
Hopefully, cheaper planes like F-35s and F-15SEs

You truly believe that the R&D costs for the F-15SE would produce an aircraft cheaper than the F-22? Considering how long it could take to get the line running? Also considering that the F-15K's and F-15SG's already cost about $100M each!?!

Or that there won't be any more cost increases for the F-35? Hoping the numbers aren't cut and the costs don't rise like the F-22's did when it's numbers were cut?

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npad
PostPosted: Aug 04, 2009 - 04:32 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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I am not American but I follow world politics and it is my read that if this was a poker game America would do best by refraining from trying to win the pot right now and settle for staying in the game. The inter connectivity of nations, and shifting poles and changing nature of what a power player even is indicates to me that we're in the midst of some sort of paradigm shift that wont become clear for another 15 to 20 years perhaps. We have been living under the assumption that it is a given that since democracy is the best form of government that the nature of most conflict revolves around the tension of that assumption but if China's model proves to be economically more successful and surpasses America with its democratic constraints then that assumption starts to become undermined....as an example of one such paradigm shift. Or, the paradigm of how war is even fought, when one considers the near prohibitive costs of modern weapons. Right now it is hard to say what we will be fighting FOR twenty years from now. I'd say do what you have to do to keep the industry alive and prevent any sort of brain drain but stay conservative ....till the dust clears.
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jetblast16
PostPosted: Aug 04, 2009 - 03:14 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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npad, everybody wants to rule the world, but it ain't theres to rule.
Power, power and more power for the select few. Haven't we seen this
before? Oh, that's right, since the dawn of time itself.

From: http://futurity.org/science-design/fast ... -jet-fuel/ (copyrighted)

Quote:
PRINCETON—A team of engineers is testing fuel additives made from tiny particles called nanocatalysts that may allow supersonic jets to fly faster and cleaner.

The nanocatalysts are composed of snippets of carbon sheets only a single atom thick.

“Right now we don’t know what actual reactions enhance the combustion rates when the particles are added to fuels,” says Ilhan Aksay, a professor of chemical engineering at Princeton University and the project’s lead investigator. “If we understand it further, we can make it more effective.”

The researchers are hoping to tackle a basic barrier to designing faster supersonic aircraft. The ignition time and burn rate of current jet fuels limits the speed of the engines.

“To fly at highly supersonic speeds one needs to run the propulsion system at supersonic speed to maximize its efficiency, but there is little time to mix, ignite, and extract energy from the fuel,” explains Richard Yetter, a professor of mechanical engineering at Pennsylvania State University and a principal investigator on the project. “To make the planes go faster, we need to burn fuel faster.”

The Princeton-led team has proposed a solution based on the use of graphene—molecular sheets of carbon atoms that exhibit unusual physical and electrical properties.

In 2003, Aksay and his chemical engineering colleague, Robert Prud’homme, developed the first commercially viable technique for making graphene by using a chemical process to split graphite into its ultrathin individual sheets. The resulting flakes are 200- to 500-nanometers wide, making the largest of them about one-hundredth the width of an average human hair.

Aksay and his colleagues are hoping to leverage another characteristic of the graphene particles: When small amounts are added to liquid fuels, they lower the temperature at which the fuel ignites.

“The concentration of the nanocatalyst in the fuel would be very small,” Aksay says. “The idea of being able to put in a very small quantity and have such a dramatic effect is important.”

The catalyst also might be used to reduce the amount of nitric oxide produced by diesel engines or accelerate soot oxidation rates, which may reduce pollution and fuel use. The graphene particles could even be used in liquid propellants for thrusters that help satellites position themselves in space.

Researchers from the University of Delaware, Stanford University, and the University of Maryland contributed to the study. The work is funded by a $3 million grant from the U.S. Air Force.

Princeton University news: www.princeton.edu/main/news


It's about bloody time that they started some real research into extracting
more power from a chemical propellant.

"The ignition time and burn rate of current jet fuels limits the speed of the engines." -- interesting, but no kidding.

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jetblast16
PostPosted: Aug 04, 2009 - 03:24 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precooled_jet_engine
I know its wikipedia, but still, this is an interesting idea. Again, IMHO, besides stealth and avionics, the future is propulsion! The
greatest advance that will bring true transformational capability within the
succeeding decades of the 21st century is...PROPULSION. If you can
reliably and relatively economically go fast AND far, you win. It's all
about EM (Energy Management) and propulsion in the future IMHO.

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Scorpion1alpha
PostPosted: Aug 08, 2009 - 02:27 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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jetblast16 wrote:
It's allabout EM (Energy Management)


Which the F-22 and F119-PW-100 combination does very well.

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shep1978
PostPosted: Nov 20, 2009 - 07:08 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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jetblast16 wrote:
npad, everybody wants to rule the world, but it ain't theres to rule.
Power, power and more power for the select few. Haven't we seen this
before? Oh, that's right, since the dawn of time itself.

From: http://futurity.org/science-design/fast ... -jet-fuel/ (copyrighted)

Quote:
PRINCETON—A team of engineers is testing fuel additives made from tiny particles called nanocatalysts that may allow supersonic jets to fly faster and cleaner.

The nanocatalysts are composed of snippets of carbon sheets only a single atom thick.

“Right now we don’t know what actual reactions enhance the combustion rates when the particles are added to fuels,” says Ilhan Aksay, a professor of chemical engineering at Princeton University and the project’s lead investigator. “If we understand it further, we can make it more effective.”

The researchers are hoping to tackle a basic barrier to designing faster supersonic aircraft. The ignition time and burn rate of current jet fuels limits the speed of the engines.

“To fly at highly supersonic speeds one needs to run the propulsion system at supersonic speed to maximize its efficiency, but there is little time to mix, ignite, and extract energy from the fuel,” explains Richard Yetter, a professor of mechanical engineering at Pennsylvania State University and a principal investigator on the project. “To make the planes go faster, we need to burn fuel faster.”

The Princeton-led team has proposed a solution based on the use of graphene—molecular sheets of carbon atoms that exhibit unusual physical and electrical properties.

In 2003, Aksay and his chemical engineering colleague, Robert Prud’homme, developed the first commercially viable technique for making graphene by using a chemical process to split graphite into its ultrathin individual sheets. The resulting flakes are 200- to 500-nanometers wide, making the largest of them about one-hundredth the width of an average human hair.

Aksay and his colleagues are hoping to leverage another characteristic of the graphene particles: When small amounts are added to liquid fuels, they lower the temperature at which the fuel ignites.

“The concentration of the nanocatalyst in the fuel would be very small,” Aksay says. “The idea of being able to put in a very small quantity and have such a dramatic effect is important.”

The catalyst also might be used to reduce the amount of nitric oxide produced by diesel engines or accelerate soot oxidation rates, which may reduce pollution and fuel use. The graphene particles could even be used in liquid propellants for thrusters that help satellites position themselves in space.

Researchers from the University of Delaware, Stanford University, and the University of Maryland contributed to the study. The work is funded by a $3 million grant from the U.S. Air Force.

Princeton University news: www.princeton.edu/main/news


It's about bloody time that they started some real research into extracting
more power from a chemical propellant.

"The ignition time and burn rate of current jet fuels limits the speed of the engines." -- interesting, but no kidding.


Do any of these nano things ever come to practical use though? I mean we've been hearing nano this and nano that for years now but nothing ever seems to come of it. In any case if it did with this research the cat is out the bag now and everyone will be doing the nano fuel thing. Why can't things that would give an advantage over an enemy be kept more secret? Is the need to gloat about potential advancements that important?
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vegasdave901
PostPosted: Nov 20, 2009 - 11:13 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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SR-22C Super-Raptor 3000(tm)
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