Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

ELP,

We do know within reason enough to plan. And the F-22 has nothing to do with that. Again, you need better than a fanboy understanding of the USAs geopolitical imparatives with regard to procurement. You don't know this as well as you think you do.

-DA

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DarthAmerica wrote:

Lesson about Armor on 4GW battlefields...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSoGCuGH-V4

...any questions?

-DA

There is always a bigger IED around the corner. But not EVERY corner. This is a weak argument.

Those with stars failed to learn from Somalia. Lots of people died in OIF because of taking Humvees into places they shouldn't have been. But yeah its all the fault of the F-22. No ones piss poor planning at the star level... but the F-22.

DarthAmerica wrote:

ELP,

We do know within reason enough to plan. And the F-22 has nothing to do with that. Again, you need better than a fanboy understanding of the USAs geopolitical imparatives with regard to procurement. You don't know this as well as you think you do.

-DA

Certainly you don't. Look at your previous arguments.

What "geopolitical imperatives"? That we have to back-fund F-35 program shortages of funds by laundering U.S. taxpayer mil aid for Israel back into an IDF "sale"?

Or that we are on a endless Team America:WORLD POLICE mission with no end in sight and less and less Chicom credit to pay for our debts? That kind fo geopolitical imperative?

Please continue..

elp wrote:

DarthAmerica wrote:

elp wrote:

solomon wrote:

THIS DISCUSSION IS CROSSING THE LINE. AMERICANS DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY AND INTERSERVICE RIVALRIES DON'T MEAN A DAMN THING WHEN IT COMES TO THAT FACT. This war was mismanaged from the top down and that has no bearing on the men fighting it. To say that the Army doesn't remember sh*t is a misnomer. To call into question the intelligence of people that serve is also inexcusable as well as to call the effort that they died in anything but noble. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASSES GENTLEMEN. I'm the most gung-ho, Semper Fi individual walking and its funny that I'm even attempting to play the voice of reason but all sides...STAND DOWN.

Negative Ghostridner on the fly-by.

No one here is questioning bravery and individual sacrifice. What we are questioning is stupid leadership from the top that too often gets a free pass.

For example, stating that one services plan takes away from another service. That has some severe limits.

"We are short of helicopters... yet two services put their head in the sand and spent billions on the V-22"

I don't hear anyone crying. of how the civil war ironclad known as the Zumwalt class destroyer... or the corvette with a destroyer price tag known as the Littoral Combat Gip ..... is taking away money from the ground troops.... it would help if there was as a start, some consistency.

Thats probably because this is a thread about F-22's!!!!!!!!!!

-DA

Yeah. Keep up the simple simon argument that the F-22 is taking money away from the troops. Some that are gullible may even believe that sad argument.

Ok big shot. What program would you like the USAF to cut to fund the F-22's?

Does the dod need ~2 billion more for 7 additional Raptors or 22,000 more combat troops?

Also, I forgot to correct you earlier, the USAF has men and women doing the same things as Army troops and that includes the exact same exposure to IEDs. I don't know what "source" you think you have but if it's telling you different it's wrong. I've worked a lot with them and if necessary I'll post pictures to show you the kinds of risk they took. Or better yet, why not simply google some of your assertions BEFORE posting them as fact.

-DA

elp wrote:

DarthAmerica wrote:

Lesson about Armor on 4GW battlefields...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSoGCuGH-V4

...any questions?

-DA

There is always a bigger IED around the corner. But not EVERY corner. This is a weak argument.

Those with stars failed to learn from Somalia. Lots of people died in OIF because of taking Humvees into places they shouldn't have been. But yeah its all the fault of the F-22. No ones piss poor planning at the star level... but the F-22.

It's not weak you armchair incompetent. The point is that it's impossible to protect yourself when imbedded among a hostile population. You are always vulnerable at times and places the enemy chooses. I've taken Hunvees plenty of places knowing any second it could be blown out from under me. But I prefered it to my bigger armored vehicle because it put me closer to the people whom I formed alliances with. THAT was my best protection.

-DA

Solomon-

Quote:

THIS DISCUSSION IS CROSSING THE LINE. AMERICANS DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY AND INTERSERVICE RIVALRIES DON'T MEAN A DAMN THING WHEN IT COMES TO THAT FACT. This war was mismanaged from the top down and that has no bearing on the men fighting it...

95% of the discussion would concur with that. Perhaps the last hold-out would have the balls to take back the utmost disrespectful and unfit comments regarding reasons for Americans killed?

Totally caught me off guard that such a member refuses to recant such a crossing of the line..

geogen wrote:

Solomon-

Quote:

THIS DISCUSSION IS CROSSING THE LINE. AMERICANS DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY AND INTERSERVICE RIVALRIES DON'T MEAN A DAMN THING WHEN IT COMES TO THAT FACT. This war was mismanaged from the top down and that has no bearing on the men fighting it...

95% of the discussion would concur with that. Perhaps the last hold-out would have the balls to take back the utmost disrespectful and unfit comments regarding reasons for Americans killed?

Totally caught me off guard that such a member refuses to recant such a crossing of the line..

Dude, it's an opinion. If you don't agree then fine but stop crying over it. Geez. You weren't there. You haven seen it. You don't know. We went to war unprepared for COIN. THAT IS A FACT. MEN AND WOMEN DIED BECAUSE OF THAT. I don't know what kind of alternate reality you live in.

-DA

Quote:

Again, you need better than a fanboy understanding of the USAs geopolitical imparatives with regard to procurement.

The most flawed of all arguments to insist 'imperative' of 2,440 US F-35s being procured - at any cost.

Procuring 60 additional Increment 3.2+ capable F-22s for long-term, superiority deterrence role (bringing to about 140 jets not including attrition for long-term deterrence) is somehow a scandal of all unnecessary Industrial Military Complex scams going forward, and cause of all past US KIA.. yet a must-have 2,440 unit F-35 fleet is simply a geo-political budget which must be funded at any cost and any loss?

No. Not only won't 2,440 happen, and not only will 513 happen over the next 5 FY, but no, the geopolitical fallout incurred by the strategically flawed F-35 program from inception itself can be partially re-routed and recovered to a greater extent than the totality of losses absorbed by an otherwise 'stay the course' Military-Industrial F-35 dream.

DarthAmerica wrote:

geogen wrote:

Solomon-

Quote:

THIS DISCUSSION IS CROSSING THE LINE. AMERICANS DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY AND INTERSERVICE RIVALRIES DON'T MEAN A DAMN THING WHEN IT COMES TO THAT FACT. This war was mismanaged from the top down and that has no bearing on the men fighting it...

95% of the discussion would concur with that. Perhaps the last hold-out would have the balls to take back the utmost disrespectful and unfit comments regarding reasons for Americans killed?

Totally caught me off guard that such a member refuses to recant such a crossing of the line..

Dude, it's an opinion. If you don't agree then fine but stop crying over it. Geez. You weren't there. You haven seen it. You don't know. We went to war unprepared for COIN. THAT IS A FACT. MEN AND WOMEN DIED BECAUSE OF THAT. I don't know what kind of alternate reality you live in.

-DA

I don't think anyone disagrees that we went to war unprepared - although to his credit then Sen. Biden did on the Senate floor in an Oct 2002 speech implore that at least 250k troops would be needed for at least 3 yrs post-invasion occupation, something which then Bush admin/DoD shrugged off.

The problem is, in any major conflict one commits to, one is historically unprepared, be it WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. Look into it.

Hence, you don't go around making stupid comments about a particular strategic airpower Fighter replacement program, which is a fraction of the cost of geo-politically ordained Joint Fighter program spent over the same time, being the culprit for 10,000 US killed!

I'm not going to let you duck this unbalanced and unfit position held, DA, as long as you keep defending it. I'm sorry.

Nobody said at any cost. You're spinning.

-DA

Geogen,

you don't know what you're talking about.

-DA

DarthAmerica wrote:

Geogen,

you don't know what you're talking about.

-DA

Dude,

I accept your apology.

-Geo

Ok. Entertain whatever delusion fits you!

-DA

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

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