Forum: General

We started to discuss it through the "comments" in the photo gallery, though I thought it would be easier here.

Look at this IAF Viper http://www.f-16.net/PhotoGallery/album08/afv.sized.jpg .

The caption says: "IDF/AF F-16A/B with 2x GBU-15 EO guided bombs, and an AXQ-14 Data Link pod (USAF photo)"

Some of us (including me) saying this one cannot be A/B, because it has the larger inlet, larger nav lights, larger RWR's on the nose and burgled main landing gear doors.

Others are saying this isn't C/D because it doesn't have its landing lights mounted on the nose landing gear door, but this photo http://www.f-16.net/PhotoGallery/album08/adt.sized.jpg clearly shows an F-16D with it's landing lights not being mounted on the nose wheel door.

And for the one-million question, what do you guys think?

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My guess is that it's an early block 30. Israel received a number of NSI inlet Blk 30's.

To my humble opinion its definitely a D model. I came to this conclusion by looking at the HUD camera.And also when its not a D model it must be a block 10 B and I wouldn't take off with a wing load like this on a block 10 wing... Wink

Im not sure if the landing light on nose gear installation is directly linked with larger gear doors because its done because of pod installation on airintakes.

The aircraft in the photo does not have the larger MCID inlet. I'm not sure how you can tell from this photo if it has the bulged (burgled ?) main gear doors. Not all C/Ds had the landing lights on the nose gear door - only Block 40 and up (and MLUs).

The position of the HUD camera indicates this is a WAC HUD which only rules out early (Block 1/5/10/15 - or pre-OCU) models.

I don't see how you can tell if it is a single or twin seat from this pic either.

Quote:

The position of the HUD camera indicates this is a WAC HUD which only rules out early (Block 1/5/10/15 - or pre-OCU) models.

So this aircraft is A/B for sure? even though it has the large nav lights?

Very interesting thread.

Personally I thought it was an A/B model. You can't tell its a one- or two-seater on this picture. I ruled out a C/D-model based on the front landing lights configuration. But Habu2 learned me another detail. That they're only installed up front from block 40 and up.

Deepspace, the large navigation light don't tell anything I'm affraid, unless anyone confirms me that the Israeli A/B-models didn't carry the Rapport III (or Israeli derative) ECM system. If they do, you'll have the larger nav lights.

If you combine this information with the fact that a WAC HUD rules out an early block 1/5/10/15 model, than it could be obvious. Since Israel never received any block 15 OCU-models, it should be a C/D-model. Probably then from the Peace Marbel II (block 30) order.

Greets,

Bjorn, according to http://www.f16falcon.com

Quote:

The first F-16 deliveries to Israel took place under the Peace Marble I Foreign Military Sales program. The first 75 Fighting Falcons delivered to Israel were Block 5/10 F-16A/Bs. These planes had originally been intended for the Imperial Iranian Air Force, but the fall of the Shah in 1979 and the rise of the Islamic fundamentalist regime caused these planes to be diverted to Israel. They had a number of internal changes that were unique to Israeli requirements, including the fitting of chaff/flare dispensers. Many have been modified in the field with innovations specific to Israeli requirements. For example, they may have been provided with the Loral Rapport III electronic countermeasures equipment and new chaff/flare dispensers, possibly AN/ALE-40s.

and http://www.jinsa.org

Quote:

Seventeen technical modifications were made to the Israeli F-16A/Bs, most of them in the software and in the mission computers, which enabled the F-16 to operate the unique weapon systems, designed by the IAF and Israeli military industries. Fin-root fairings on Early F-16As house the Rapport system.
In 1992 all IAF F-16A/Bs (excluding the latest batch of Nets 2 aircraft) went into an upgrade phase at Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI), where wings were structurally reinforced, and Elbit's advanced flight and mission management system was installed. By the end of this phase, all F-16A/Bs were system equaled with the F-16Cs; however, the engine remained the original F-100.

The WAC HUD is found in all Block 15 OCU, 25, 30, 32, most 50, 52 and some export 40 & 42s. We beat this to death in another thread IIRC. All WAC HUDs and photos I have seen have the camera mounted forward of the combiner glass like in this photo.

The nav lights are normal size but they are mounted on enlarged Rapport ECM housings as Bjorn mentioned.

All one can tell front this photo is what the jet isn't - it isn't pre-OCU, it isn't a GE-powered big mouth jet, it isn't a 42 or 52... that narrows it down to either a Block 15 OCU (which I don't think Israel has) or a Block 25, 32 or early 30/NSI jet.

Thanks guys.

Okay, in checking referances today, after seeing the photo earlier this morning I think it is a "C" model block 30. My research turned up that all Israeli Blk 30's were from production blks built early in the run prior to the "big mouth" intake was introduced on the line.
The large tires, wheels, and bulged gear doors are on all Israeli ordered Blk. 30's. You can tell it has the larger gear due to the main gear door actuators are the more substantial ones used with the larger main gear. The Greek Blk. 30's also have the larger gear.
The landing lights are on the main gear of the large gear Blk. 30's because they were changed to the nose gear when the Blk. 40's introduced Lantrin to the intake duct. The Blk 30's do not use Lantrin therfore the change was't necessary.

I meant to add to the last message that all Israeli "D" model Blk. 30's except for "020" have theMCID intake . They came later in the production run with the introduction of the Blk. 30E's and F's.

DeepSpace wrote:

Others are saying this isn't C/D because it doesn't have its landing lights mounted on the nose landing gear door, but this photo http://www.f-16.net/PhotoGallery/album08/adt.sized.jpg clearly shows an F-16D with it's landing lights not being mounted on the nose wheel door.

And for the one-million question, what do you guys think?

This aircraft is a F-16D Block 30 that dilvierd in 1989 to the 101sqn,
after 2 years this aircraft diliverd to the 109sqn.

Quote:

This aircraft is a F-16D Block 30 that dilvierd in 1989 to the 101sqn, after 2 years this aircraft diliverd to the 109sqn.

OK, so how can you tell this from the photo?

This F-16D tail number is 088, and the tail art its the 101 tail art.
now, see this picture :
http://www.f-16.net/PhotoGallery/album08/abr.sized.jpg
there is a F-16D tail number 088 and the tail art its the 109 tail art.

In a CD I got of 50years to the 109sqn there is a sentence who say that when 109 get in to the F-16 genrition the 101sqn dlivered 4 F-16D
(tail number - 041, 045, 046, 088)

IAF-16, I still don't see how you are connecting this info to the referenced photos.

First of all no tail markings are visible in the first photo, so how do you know this is #088?

According to the tail # 088 you quoted, and the serial number database on this site, the second photo is of 88-1719, a Block 30F. Block 30F jets had GE engines (as does the a/c in the second photo) and the big mouth MCID inlet - not visible in the second photo but clearly not present in the first photo.

Another thing that is confusing, maybe you (or someone) can clarify - Block 30s were delivered to Israel under Peace Marble II. Did PM II Block 30 D-models have the avionics spine? I was under the impression the first spines were part of the Block 40s delivered under PM III. Is that correct?

Forum: General

An IDF/AF F-16 photo, an A/B or C/D?