Forum: F-22A Raptor

Interest article here by Dr. Carlo Kopp:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Low-Band-Radars.html

He seems to suggest than B-2, due to its size, allows it to adopt a stealthier alignment/shaping to defeat the low band radars(VHF, UHF), as opposed to fighter sized stealth aircraft(including the Raptor, I assume). On the other hand, he maintains the Raptor is still survivable againts those radars, but relies more on supercruise and stand off weapons(SDB) than stealth. The F-35, however, is a different story since it doesn't have the all around stealth(ie, B-2) nor the high altitude and supercruise capabilities of the Raptor. Any stealth experts here?

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Yes. We are experts on stealth, and Area 51. We know the pathologists who performed the alien autopsy. Several of us are card carrying special agents of The Men in Black. I have swam with the Loch Ness Monster. I have had long conversations with Elvis. He and Michael Jackson are still alive.

Anyway, all jackassery aside, any information about radar cross section are classified, and should not be discussed on these boards.

Remember, Big Brother is out there, and he is watching. Consider this your warning shot across the bow.

TC,

I happen to actually know some of the guys who built Area 51 and even with all the stories they tell, they're still really careful with what they say Wink

Pretty much everything on APA should be taken with a grain of salt, since it's created with a very specific viewpoint in mind- that the free world is going to be doomed by hordes of Su-35MK's unless we build at least 600 of those glorious F-22s, and sell some to Australia.

Some of the technical information is interesting, but much of it is conjecture or cherry picked, with extremely optimistic predictions for Russian technology with outright dismissal of any western fighter save the F-22.

F-22 = marble
B-2 > marble
Very Happy

Carlos writes interesting stuff (I have some of his pages bookmarked at work) with good details, but his conclusions are often questionable. He can probably write what he does because he has no clearance (or access) because folks who do know better; therefore he's guessing. Take him with a grain of salt.

It isn't necessary to get into RCS specifics to discuss this. All machines are designed to meet requirements. That includes stealth aircraft. The B-2 is a large loooong ranged bomber built to penetrate into the toughest threat IAD system ever and the F-22/35 is a fighter designed for OCA/DCA/strike. By the nature of their roles it's easy to see the types of threat sensors the respective platforms would be most likely to encounter and thus optimized to defeat. Also, remember, "stealth" is more than just reducing RCS. It includes the CONOPS and tactics you use. Fly carelessly and dependent on the technology only and the human brain, the most dangerous weapon, will find a way to bring you down. So, to address the original question, which is stealthier in the low-RF? Well that just depends would be the best answer.

Ponder this. A B-2 has A LOT of power generation capacity and real-estate to work with. Good engineers are going to use that for a lot more than just absorbing and reflecting RF. This is truly a good case for the the saying do not judge a book by it's cover.

-DA

LOL TC

. Why is it so assumptious that these questions will simply be answered because one asks??? aw2007, I am enthused at your curiousity, but seriously get a grip. Obviously Kopp is very intelligent and does some homework when he does these briefs. But anyone in the know would never release the information you are requesting. For an anology here, look at corporations. If I have an edge over a competitor, I would never give away what makes me more successful than said competitor. And you can bet my competitor is dying to know what that success is and exploit it for their benefit. As TC so ardently said, this is not to be discussed. I am guessing you are Aussie and have good intentions, but this question is too taboo for a forum. TC, say hi to Elvis for me, and give the LNM a hug.

DarthAmerica wrote:

Ponder this. A B-2 has A LOT of power generation capacity and real-estate to work with. Good engineers are going to use that for a lot more than just absorbing and reflecting RF. This is truly a good case for the the saying do not judge a book by it's cover.

-DA

I'm curious, are you hinting at 'electrogravatics' being used on the B-2? (it's something i've heard before and has always facsinated me but i'm not sure what to make of it)

shep1978 wrote:

I'm curious, are you hinting at 'electrogravatics' being used on the B-2? (it's something i've heard before and has always facsinated me but i'm not sure what to make of it)

Friend of mine works on SSNs at Newport. Always rambling on about the technology used in the latest noise cancellation headphones, and how it may apply to submarine warfare. Apparently, acoustic signatures may be canceled, modified, etc... I guess I'm thinking more about canceling out the electromagnetic radiation beamed at you in some fashion, or re emitting it, perhaps.

I don't think the rumors of such in the B-2 are credible. But I have heard other rumors that the front leading edge (beak) on the B-2 can be ionized for some purpose. Presumably for radar related reasons.

There are lots of things you can do to defeat radar, IR, acoustic and even visual spectrum sensors. Does the B-2 use any of this? It's Possible.

No, no no! Everyone has it wrong. They use a cloaking device like the Klingon Bird of Prey. The alien contract workers at Area 51 installed them before the jets reported to Whiteman.

TC wrote:

No, no no! Everyone has it wrong. They use a cloaking device like the Klingon Bird of Prey. The martian contract workers at Area 51 installed them before the jets reported to Whiteman.

Alright, fine, no stealth talk. Can we have an indepth discussion of ECM and deception techniques? Anyone have updated threat tables on the F-22? Let's say I am doing a model for my kid in my backyard, yeah uhm, model.

It cracks me up how many times I see people delve into classified topics; I really wonder how many foreign intelligence services watch f-16.net!

My guess is none Neutral

Forum: F-22A Raptor

B-2 stealthier than F-22??