Forum: F-35 Lightning II

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

Interesting Read.

F-16.net Sponsor

Yes, even as a debtor nation, the U.S. is quite generous for picking up a large amount of the tab. Laughing

elp wrote:

Yes, even as a debtor nation, the U.S. is quite generous for picking up a large amount of the tab. Laughing

Kind of cheap shot don't ya think? It may be true, but what exactly was the purpose of the comment in relationship to the article? I see absolutely none Eric.

beazz

Beazz wrote:

elp wrote:

Yes, even as a debtor nation, the U.S. is quite generous for picking up a large amount of the tab. Laughing

Kind of cheap shot don't ya think? It may be true, but what exactly was the purpose of the comment in relationship to the article? I see absolutely none Eric.

beazz

It is pretty fair actually. Many talk about an F-35 "sale" to Israel. The last administration bumped up foreign mil aid support to Israel and Saudi Arabia even more. That makes any deal a huge offset of huge proportions. It even makes the Polish F-16 deal appear like they actually paid for all of it. Laughing

elp wrote:

Beazz wrote:

elp wrote:

Yes, even as a debtor nation, the U.S. is quite generous for picking up a large amount of the tab. Laughing

Kind of cheap shot don't ya think? It may be true, but what exactly was the purpose of the comment in relationship to the article? I see absolutely none Eric.

beazz

It is pretty fair actually. Many talk about an F-35 "sale" to Israel. The last administration bumped up foreign mil aid support to Israel and Saudi Arabia even more. That makes any deal a huge offset of huge proportions. It even makes the Polish F-16 deal appear like they actually paid for all of it. Laughing

I'll ask again. What does any of the offsets and the like have to do with this article? I'll agree with your assesment of aid and offsets and all. But the article has nothing to do with that Eric. It's purely about how we may or may not allow the Israelis to tinker with it. It had nothing whatsoever to do with foreign military aid or how much we will be charging them for it. It has nothing at all to do with the cost of the F35 as a project or anything else. It has nothing to do with US foreign military aid to Israel or anyone else for that matter. It is not about money even remotely. So somehow you have turned an article about how one nation may or may not get to tinker with the F35 into an article on US foreign military aid and a sarcastic slam at the US governments spending habits and who it spends it on. Totally irrelevant to this particular article.

Again I think you're just taking a extremely cheap shot at the F35 and/or the Israelis. Looks like both if ya ask me Eric.

Beazz

Can anyone refresh my memory, about why Israel was originally "locked out" of the F-35 Lightning II program to begin with? I have a vague memory of Israel exporting some Lavi technology to some countries we don't like, did that have anything to do with it? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Yeah, they sold some tech to China, might have been someone else too. I think it was related to UAV:s in some way. That raised some alerts...

China huh? That sounds familiar, I seem to remember Israel selling (or trying to) to some countries in Africa. Didn't hear about them selling U.A.V's but it makes sense.

Well most recently the Israeli's are openly selling UAVs to Russia. Take that for what it's worth.

edwin3060 wrote:

Well most recently the Israeli's are openly selling UAVs to Russia. Take that for what it's worth.

As part of this deal, Russia won't sell S-300 to Iran.

DeepSpace wrote:

edwin3060 wrote:

Well most recently the Israeli's are openly selling UAVs to Russia. Take that for what it's worth.

As part of this deal, Russia won't sell S-300 to Iran.

I don't think that is true, I have read only yesterday that Israel is still negotiating the S-300 sale to Iran by Russia, trying to get the deal cancelled I mean so it would certainly seem the S-300 to iran deal is still on the table. Besides I would doubt Israel would be stupid enough to trust Russia not to sell Iran S-300's under any sort of deal, you'd need an epic amount of faith to trust in Putin and the gang...

Quote:

Shep1978
I don't think that is true, I have read only yesterday that Israel is still negotiating the S-300 sale to Iran by Russia, trying to get the deal cancelled I mean so it would certainly seem the S-300 to Iran deal is still on the table. Besides I would doubt Israel would be stupid enough to trust Russia not to sell Iran S-300's under any sort of deal, you'd need an epic amount of faith to trust in Putin and the gang...

Probably true, remember "trust but verify"? I agree Israel isn't stupid (neither is Putin for that matter). Still U.A.V.'s to stop selling SAM's to your enemy would be a good trade off. Gotta go to reuters.com and do some web searches and find out what's going on. Thanks for the info though.

Just re-read some of this and something I missed first time jumped out. Are you saying the US is giving the Saudis mil aid in the same way as to the Israelis? If anyone can afford to buy cash I thought it´d be the Saudis...

DeepSpace wrote:

edwin3060 wrote:

Well most recently the Israeli's are openly selling UAVs to Russia. Take that for what it's worth.

As part of this deal, Russia won't sell S-300 to Iran.

That's my point exactly-- the Israeli's will do what is necessary to ensure their survival or improve their national situation, even if it means betraying US interests. They know they can bank on their lobbyists to mitigate any damage of their actions.

Now, I have nothing against the Israelis-- they are just doing what they have to to survive in a rough neighbourhood. But giving the F-35 to Israel and expecting them not to sell it or trade it away to other countries like China or Russia is wishful thinking, IMO, especially given the precedent that we have in the Lavi fighter project. On the other hand, given the security compromises we have seen (publicly reported) about the B-2, F-22 and F-35, maybe there's really not many secrets left?

Maybe under a deal to transfer F-35 frames and tech over to IDF, USgovt could at least negotiate partial-ownership exchange (for profit sharing/oversight) of certain, relevant high-tech Israeli firms which would be connected to F-35 development/modification?

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Israel, US Bridge Gaps Over F-35