Forum: Technology

Hello to everyone,
I am following this website now for around 3-4 years but have just registered.
I want to start by saying that I appologise if my english isn't to clear as I am not from A country in which english isnt the native language, but I will do my best.

I do come from A background in aviation and decided to reply at this thread cause I have noticed during the years that some (not many) folks are one of the two:
1. Disrepectful toward the Indian Air Force and the capibility of the Indians and Indian pilots and disrespectful toward the Russian fighters.
2. People are ignorant and therefore are saying incorect things about the Russian/Indian fighters and the Indian Air Force.

Let me make things A bit more clear:
1. India is currently producing the Sukhoi 30MKI under full technology transfer which means it is A country that is capable of producing and is producing this wonderful fighter by itself. Indian is also producing an advanced light combat aircraft named "Teja".
And India isn't the first, 2nd or 3rd world country that is producing top end fighters.
2. India has participated during the years in practises and arial combats against some of the best air forces in the world, just A couple of examples, people here like to brag about the F-15 (one of my all time favorites, our airforce has some advanced versions of it), F-18, F-16 etc, I want to remind youll that in mock dog fights against the USAF the Indian Sukhoi 30MKI beat the American aircrafts at A ratio of 9-1!! yes you'll can check it up. Ofcourse the Americans had explainations to why it happend but it just shows that the Indian pilots and aircrafts shouldnt be disrespected.
3. Further more the Indian Air Force had staged dog fights against the RAF several times during recent years with the Sukhoi 30MKI, and came out with the upper hand each time. The British pilots that fly the Eurofighter said they were seriously impressed by the ability of the indian airplane (which also has french and israeli instruments) and although there was no disclosure of the results I have inside info that the Sukhoi emerged victorious, by the way some of this info is avilable on the web.
4. If the Sukhoi PAK project will go ahead it will be A fighter that will match the abilities of the F22 and F35 (I remember seing A mock model of it at an airshow in 2001, it looked so special), there is lots of info about this airplane on the web and again if this project goes ahead the Indian variant will be amazing.

A lovely evening to everyone Smile

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jacob wrote:

Hello to everyone,
I am following this website now for around 3-4 years but have just registered.
I want to start by saying that I appologise if my english isn't to clear as I am not from A country in which english isnt the native language, but I will do my best.

Welcome,

No worries about the language mate … we understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA1NoOOo ... mp;index=5

jacob,
Welcome to F-16.net. I hope you enjoy the site, learn some things, and contribute things for others to learn from you. We all learn from each other. I want to assure you that no one intentionally disrespects others here. What you feel is disrespectful may only be a different way of expressing ourselves. Western people often use friendly informal ways of discussing things which sound disrespectful to others. We like to use humor and sometimes that sound disrespectful to others, but it is not intended that way.

Yoiu should also realize when different air forces join for training together, rules are established so that specific goals may be reached. These rules do not always result in real world comparisons. So when USAF trains in India, there is a result. Then when IAF trains in USA, there is a completely different result, due to different rules. Both forces learn somehting and that is the goal.

Please also understand that manufacturing a fighter is not the same as developing a new fighter without outside assistance. There are very few countries capable of doing that, and India is not yet one of them, with no disrespect to them.

Quote:

3. Further more the Indian Air Force had staged dog fights against the RAF several times during recent years with the Sukhoi 30MKI, and came out with the upper hand each time. The British pilots that fly the Eurofighter said they were seriously impressed by the ability of the indian airplane (which also has french and israeli instruments) and although there was no disclosure of the results I have inside info that the Sukhoi emerged victorious, by the way some of this info is avilable on the web.

Strange, info in the UK is that the Tornado's got their asses kicked but the Typhoons kicked the Su-30's a$$.

Thanks for your greeting boff180 and johnwill, I surely hope to be active, learn more and do my best to contribute.
I come from A western country- Israel and I live not far from an airforce base (can't say more) at this base there are A couple of squadrons of the F-16 Sufa (storm), the latest version Israel purchased.

I also think that India is coming close to A stage in which it will be recognized as A country that devolpoes aircrafts, the Tejas is A major step in that direction (and so are the Sukhoi's) and if the PAK project will go ahead that will be the final seal to it.
http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2004/06/30/54664.html
(By the way the main fault of the Indian Air Force during the excersize was that they were A bit to eager and "shot down" each another few times, which ofcourse didn't change the results/outcome of the joint excersize).
Regarding the Typhoon, my sources have told me otherwise about the results.

I didn't write what I wrote to defend the Indian Air Force or the Russian Aircrafts, I just think that times are changing, countries that were once considered weak and underdevoloped are progressing, they are learning and modernizing their aircrafts and their airforces, the balance of force is changing.

A lovely day to everyone Smile

jacob wrote:

4. If the Sukhoi PAK project will go ahead it will be A fighter that will match the abilities of the F22 and F35 (I remember seing A mock model of it at an airshow in 2001, it looked so special), there is lots of info about this airplane on the web and again if this project goes ahead the Indian variant will be amazing.

Hi, I wanted to say how did you see a mock-up of an aircraft that hasn't been released to the public? I think what you saw was probably the Mig-144 5th gen fighter mockup...

Sceondly how do you know it will be as good as the F-35 or F-22? I say this becasue Russias development progress for the 5th gen fighter and the PAK-FA has been nothing short of laughable and frankly their upkeep and upgrading of thier 4th gen fighter is equally laughable. Most of what you read about the PAK-FA on the net is nonsense specualtion with no basis in fact whatsoever, Paralays drawings included.
Also Russia can barely afford to maintain and operate its 4th gen fighters, how the hell will it cope with 5th gen machines?
And last but not least take a look at operational stealth aircraft, thats right non are designed, produced and operated by Russia - they have zero experience with LO aircraft and how to build and operate them and thats without going into the other 5th gen aspects such as AESA radar, electronic attack, ELINT collection ability true sensor fusion, true supercruising etc etc. In short the Russians have the odds greatly stacked against them and to think they can pull off a Raptor class 5th gen fighter is about as likely as you or I getting struck by lightning, yes it might happen but its extremely doubtfull to say the least.

jacob wrote:

2. India has participated during the years in practises and arial combats against some of the best air forces in the world, just A couple of examples, people here like to brag about the F-15 (one of my all time favorites, our airforce has some advanced versions of it), F-18, F-16 etc, I want to remind youll that in mock dog fights against the USAF the Indian Sukhoi 30MKI beat the American aircrafts at A ratio of 9-1!! yes you'll can check it up. Ofcourse the Americans had explainations to why it happend but it just shows that the Indian pilots and aircrafts shouldnt be disrespected.

I'd suggest you do is go read up on the excersise in question, you will be enlightened and it will save alot of embarrassment on your part for future postings, you'll understand when you read more about it...

Last edited by Pilotasso on May 26, 2009 - 12:22 PM; edited 1 time in total

SU30MKI is the most advanced russian airframe flying today, Note: with western content. But it has some weaknesses one of them being quite serious:

1) It inherits low airframe life typical of russian designs
2) Uses a PESA radar, no AESA as of yet, where aircraft of its class on the west ere or have been already moved to this tehcnology.
3) It uses obsolete and outdated A-A weaponry namely its main BVR missiles: the SARH R-27 Alamo. The RVVAE it also uses has no datalink, its BVR capability is limited.

The PAK FA is to be scheduled to fly this year, but not mockups have been seen as of yet. If it doesnt fly this year it will loose all credibility. To me it will confirm that theres a reason why there is nothing more than art concepts so far.

Pilotasso wrote:

The PAK FA is to be scheduled to fly this year,

Thats what Russia said last year, and the year before that, plus factor in the two previous utterly failed 5th gen fighters and it isn't looking good

What other 5th gen fighters?

Mig-144 and Su-47, and yes I know the Russias are now labeling them as "tech demonstrators" but the reality is if you look back a decade or so you will find numerous well linked RuAF journalists were reporting that the RuAF was touting those two as future 5th gen fighters.

Last edited by Pilotasso on May 26, 2009 - 01:41 PM; edited 3 times in total

Journalists say the f-15 is a TOMCAT so I would put too much credit on them. The mig was more like it was targeting the eurocannards design. The Su-47 was a forward sewtp wing tehcology demosntrator to get funds of the goverment for a full development aircraft wich never hapened.
None of the 2 seemed to aim 5th gen features such as stealth nor did they intend to despite the hype they recieved from the media and public.

--double post sorry--

Pilotasso wrote:

Journalists say the f-15 is a TOMCAT

I'm sure you are familier with Yefim Gordon who is not amatuer aviation journalist and Piotr Butowski who again is no amatuer, they are two very well connected individuals...

Yefin gordon reports the use of the R-27AE in russian and chinese airforces in some of its books, a missile that was canceled in favour of the R-77 (of wich very few ever entered service, but exported in a downgraded version). That among other vapourware.

I wouldnt trust a nickel on yefin gordon.

Forum: Technology

Sukhoi PAK FA