Forum: Off-topic

Looks like it's time for Pontiac to join Oldsmobile in GM history. Mad

Bell will be tolling for GMC and Buick next.

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I think Buick's going to stay but Hummer, Saturn and Saab are going.

So glad I made the choice I did a couple years ago, though maybe it was God planning for me... I used to work for GM but left and went to the only domestic and not a government employee (hint hint)! I am sad though, that's a lot of American history. I hope General Motors makes it through, do a little research on what all they have done for this country. I want to make a couple political statements here but I feel it isn't the appropriate time for that. Hummer and Saturn can die, Saab will probably go back to Sweden, and Buick is here to stay (or sell boatloads in China). Cadillac does great and the verdict is still out on GMC. We'll see...

PS If you live in Nor Cal and need the best selling truck for over 35 years, hit me up!

I think I just blew my cover Whistle

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the only domestic and not a government employee

tank....ya gave it away there.....

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Hummer and Saturn can die, Saab will probably go back to Sweden, and Buick is here to stay (or sell boatloads in China). Cadillac does great and the verdict is still out on GMC. We'll see...

I've never liked Saturn, so yeah, that brand can be shut down--no use spinning it off, one marque all alone would get eaten alive by the Big Three.

Merge Buick and Cadillac, they compete in the same market--geezer--er luxury, yeah, luxuury vehicles... Very Happy

Give Saab back to the Swedes--bring back Born From Jets!!
Move all the truck production into the Hummer brand, only keep the Silverado and Suburban--big markets there) and make the H2 and H3 slightly more affordable (I'm biased, I like the look of the vehicles).
Axe GMC since they overlap Chevy with every vehicle they produce.
Keep Chevy's portfolio the same except for the trucks, and don't even THINK about stopping the 'Vette (that should be a crime for even considering axing the Corvette, only Chevy I'd ever buy).
If they'd not shut Pontiac down I'd say move the 'Vette there, and make the marque a performance line, the Grand-Am, Grand Prix, Camaro, and Corvette.
Oh, and merge the portfolio of the foreign marques--just produce American cars that drive on the wrong side of the road, and put a different logo on them.

I know it's probably much more complicated than this.
Here's another thing to think about, if Chevy goes under, what will we drive to the levee?

ptplauthor wrote:

if Chevy goes under, what will we drive to the levee?

A FORD! The only vehicles you should've been driving to begin with!

I'm not very sorry to see the Pontiac go. They lost their direction several years ago, and the last nail in the coffin was cancelling the Firebird/Trans Am line. The last few years have just been 3rd rate cars from a brand that used to be known for being GM's sports division.

If you want to go further back with Pontiac, one could say that their quality started downhill once John Z. DeLorean left.

Buick could go and nobody would miss it, except for really old people. They really lack appeal. Buick suffers from the same problem that Olds did...it's your Grandpa's car. Other than the GNX back in the mid 80's, when was the last time Buick did anything revolutionary for the automotive market? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?...Beuller?...Beuller?

GM's best bet would be to, as PT said, cut off Buick, and make Caddy the sole luxury division for GM.

GMC is nothing more than a rebadged Chevy truck. Merge the trucks into one division, call all of them Chevy, and save more money.

Saturn will go and won't be missed. It never had a lot of popularity, and the retirement of the Saturn nameplate would never have the same sting as for example...Chevy going away.

At this point in the game, the same could be said for Hummer. Pricey, impractical, gas guzzlers are not what wins cool points with the public anymore.

As much as I hate to say it, the Camaro and Corvette are also two pricey, gas guzzling, impractical vehicles that Joe Six Pack neither wants, nor needs in this day and age. Perhaps mothball these two models for now, and then bring them back when GM and the rest of the country gets back on their feet.

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Corvette are also two pricey, gas guzzling

I agree with the Camaro, but dropping the Corvette is insanity, by this time it's a part of American history--literally it was on my sophomore Civics textbook, and it has been produced continuously since its inception except for 1983. The Vette's got the best MPG of the major Big Three sports cars: Mustang, 'Vette, and Viper.

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A FORD! The only vehicles you should've been driving to begin with!

it doesn't have the same ring to it....even though it's true.

I'm sorry but Ford doesn't have any cars I'd ever want to drive, I'd rather have a Corvette than a Mustang any day (though I do like the new look) and everything else is just...

As far as I understand the Buicks do well in China, might not wanna axe the brand doing best there since that is the fastest growing and possibly the greatest market in the world. Probably why Buick stays and Pontiac is a goner.

As for SAAB, there´s no way in h*** they´ll survive on their own. They realized this some 20 years ago, that´s why part of the company was sold to GM in the first place. After ten years GM took over completely and ran it into the ground. Things started to go downhill long before that when they merged with what was then Swedens largest lorrymanufacturer. After a while the guys building the cars felt they weren´t given enough resourses and they split. After a while Ford came along, didn´t like what they saw but before they could say no officialy GM swopt in. I actually drive one, the "born from jets" is practically limited to a "black panel" button that turns off all execpt the most vital dials when pushed. Handy, I suppose, if you´re lining up for a bombing run over Bagdad but of limited use on a freeway. Laughing

Both the carmanufacturer and the defencecompany are firing people left, right and center. Wouldn´t be surprised if both are gone in five years...

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As far as I understand the Buicks do well in China

Oh, then make sure they load up on the lead paint and defective brakes, and ship 'em off to Red China.

Alright, now your in my house! A topic I can speak on with authority Cheers

We'll start with Chrysler. Their toast. OK done with Chrysler. Almost, they killed Jeep, put a crappy V6 in the Wrangler, they need to die just for that! The Viper, only somewhat cool car they build was designed in a weekend by two drunk engineers in a barn and after 15 years they finally got the bugs out of it! Hell it took em' 12 years just to get ABS and lets not even talk about the plastic windows. And last but not least, the Ram. They put coil over rear suspension.... now it has zero tow capacity and even less hauling capacity, isn't that a truck? OK now I'm done with Chrysler.

GM: lets not even get into selling GMAC the billion dollar a year PROFIT arm of GM which they did a few years ago, that alone would have saved them. GMAC has almost ZERO sub prime loans. Again SAAB can go away, the Swede's want it back anyway. Saturn was an attempt for the employees to start their own brand sell it to GM and bail, it worked, now burn it to the ground! Hummer, the H3 is a Trailblazer with a SMALLER gutless engine that gets even crappier gas mileage. The H2 is a Suburban on a 3/4 ton chassis with big springs and big tires, go to youtube and watch a video of one off road, then get back to me. Buick is the number one brand in China and was the number one most reliable vehicle for many years and is still number two on planet earth ahead of Toyota. GMC sells about a third of what Chevy does and is very profitable, third in their lineup behind Cadillac then Chevy. Cadillac is doing great, even better than Chevy if you go off of pure margin, they just need to torch the SRX, that thing is hideous, we used to say it was sell proof. Other than that I wouldn't give them another penny of taxpayer money, let them go bankrupt so they can tell the unions where to shove it. I'm not anti union, but they are out of control, there is no reason to pay someone 80k a year to bolt seats into a car then give them another 30k in benefits, it's ridiculous!

Now to Ford. I have no clue what Mercury does on its own, I would scrap it, I don't think anyone would notice. Other than that Ford is building some great vehicles right now, anyone seen a 2010 Fusion, or the Flex (if you can get past the exterior the interior is sick). Ford is also the company that builds a true heavy duty truck, and their about to come out with some pretty nice new vehicles. If your not buying Ford stock, get your head checked!

One last thing...

TC wrote:

At this point in the game, the same could be said for Hummer. Pricey, impractical, gas guzzlers are not what wins cool points with the public anymore.

As much as I hate to say it, the Camaro and Corvette are also two pricey, gas guzzling, impractical vehicles that Joe Six Pack neither wants, nor needs in this day and age. Perhaps mothball these two models for now, and then bring them back when GM and the rest of the country gets back on their feet.

Reality check here, NOBODY gives a rip about fuel economy, NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I sell Fords in the San Francisco Bay area, the most liberal planet in the universe! I have customers come in to look at the Hybrids and leave in V6's and big SUV's. The hippies don't even buy them! Trust me I know, my dealership has the largest inventory of Hybrids in the state of California. In Escapes it's almost ten to one of Hybrid vs gas. We can't keep the gas in stock, they sell too fast! Hybrids are a novelty, but nobody wants to buy one! Now don't misquote me, the Hybrids are great vehicles, but people want power. And don't say its about cost, because on a Hybrid Fusion, 41 MPG you can get a $3,400 tax rebate, then write off ALL the taxes, which is in my area 9.25% of the purchase price. Fully loaded Fusion = about 27k, fully loaded Hybrid is 34k. when you do the math the Hybrid is only a couple bucks more, but with the fuel savings will be CHEAPER than the gas equivalent. People still want the gas! Confused

Oh yea, and as far as price goes, mostly what we sell are the most loaded expensive models Ford makes!

OK, I'm done now

ps if anyone was wondering why I'm on here all the time, I'm a car salesman, I don't actually do real work

Very Happy

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

Hummers piss me off. Ever since they released the H2 as a Suburban with an inflated price tag they can go die in a fire. The original Hummer was something real, a no-kidding off road vehicle. The H2/H3 is just re-branding the same-old same-old. I guess they ARE kind of nice, when you see someone driving one it's like a sign saying "I'm an idiot with too much money" hanging around their necks.

I'm only bummed about Pontiac going away because if I want to replace my current aging Bonneville with something with the GM 3.8L V6 now I'm stuck with Buick as the only (massively overpriced) option.

That GM 3.8 was one of the best engines ever built. 200hp AND 30 MPG (not really, but close). GM was way ahead with that one. If you want something similar, go get a Buick Lucern 3.8. Very nice car, based off of the new Cadillac DTS (replacement for the DeVille). You can probably find a very low mileage lease return for well under 20k. Let me know if you need any advice on that one.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

I still get 30 MPG @ 75 MPH with my Bonneville. When it was new I'd get 32. Get around 14 MPG around town though... Smile

I may have to do some looking for used Lucernes, the domestic used car market is kind of lacking in Dallas. Everyone here seems to drive a Mercedes, a BMW or a Lexus.

Tank Top, what I meant as far as the Camaro and Vette go was not entirely directed at fuel economy, it was PRACTICALITY. Sure, some single 20-something attorney who is making umpteen thousand a year can get away with buying a Corvette. Now, when the same guy has the wife, the 2.5, and Fido, the Corvette is the most impractical vehicle on the highway.

Corvette is not what is going to save GM. In fact, if they're relying on the Vette, they are in bigger trouble than anyone thought.

If selling vehicles to the Chinese is a big concern for GM, then they could halt American sales of the Buick, and put their focus solely into China. In the U.S., Buick is your grandpa's car. Tiger Woods couldn't even help sell Buick to a younger American market. Axe it here in the States, and the biggest hell would probably be raised by retirees in Fort Lauderdale. Save the 3.8, though. The best engine Buick ever had.

I'm going to agree with PT, the Corvette is the epitome, the very definition of the American car.

ptplauthor wrote:

...dropping the Corvette is insanity, by this time it's a part of American history--literally it was on my sophomore Civics textbook, and it has been produced continuously since its inception except for 1983. The Vette's got the best MPG of the major Big Three sports cars: Mustang, 'Vette, and Viper.

TC wrote:

Tank Top, what I meant as far as the Camaro and Vette go was not entirely directed at fuel economy, it was PRACTICALITY. Sure, some single 20-something attorney who is making umpteen thousand a year can get away with buying a Corvette. Now, when the same guy has the wife, the 2.5, and Fido, the Corvette is the most impractical vehicle on the highway.

Corvette is not what is going to save GM. In fact, if they're relying on the Vette, they are in bigger trouble than anyone thought.

If selling vehicles to the Chinese is a big concern for GM, then they could halt American sales of the Buick, and put their focus solely into China. In the U.S., Buick is your grandpa's car. Tiger Woods couldn't even help sell Buick to a younger American market. Axe it here in the States, and the biggest hell would probably be raised by retirees in Fort Lauderdale. Save the 3.8, though. The best engine Buick ever had.

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Forum: Off-topic

RIP Pontiac