T-38 shoots down F-22 [Video]

thedewline · by **thedewline** » 20 Apr 2009, 19:08

Hey guys,

This is video clip posted two days ago on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmDj3mFrXQ

I don't see this as scandalous. But it is a really interesting video to watch. How many free beers do you think the T-38 pilot got for this one?

Tinito_16 · by **Tinito_16** » 20 Apr 2009, 19:43

Wow. I am amazed that the F-22 couldn't just run away... or turn sharper than how he did.

Tinito_16 · by **Tinito_16** » 20 Apr 2009, 19:52

I mean, from the looks of the video it seemed that the F-22 pilot was not very aware of where the T-38 was... He never seemed to do a sharp turn, never seemed to try to outrun the other guy, just seems either it was a very inexperienced F-22 pilot or maybe they were training on how to lock on Stealth a/c and so the F-22 pilot just kinda turned lightly so that the student in the T-38 could line up a shot (if there was a student in the T-38). Makes no sense... If anyone here's seen the airshow vids, you know the F-22 turns hell of alot sharper than that. And it wasn't like they were slow either, they were going at 300+ knots.

tank_top · by **tank_top** » 20 Apr 2009, 20:30

Maybe they were testing the Raptor with an engine out :shrug:

Or they could have put strict speed limitations on the Raptor for the specific engagement to test low speed turns? The entire engagement is between 320-450 knots. I know some engagements are this slow, but in a 40 second engagement the Raptor would know he was being engaged, and I'm guessing (don't know tactics that well) but he would use speed to his benefit.

Lastly they could be simulating a thrust vectoring problem and the Raptor is only using normal control surfaces. Whatever the case, I'm sure it was a highly structured engagement where the Raptor was not allowed to use all of his advantages. We simply don't know, but whatever the case I'm sure the other guy is bragging!

:2c:

rapier01 · by **rapier01** » 20 Apr 2009, 20:50

It's a plane- not Superman or the second coming of Christ. Any fighter pilot will tell you that any aircraft can lose a WVR fight. The T-38 is a tiny plane, hence it's difficult to spot... and why they're often used for this sort of training. During an ORI at Langley last year they used T-38s as bandits so I'm not particularly surprised. Anyways, we don't know the particulars of this engagement or even if its a valid shot... but the Raptor is not invincible, nor is any other man-made machine.

mor10 · by **mor10** » 20 Apr 2009, 21:43

If you can see and/or track it anyone can kill it. The question here is why does the T-38 radar appear to track it without any difficulty?

Tinito_16 · by **Tinito_16** » 20 Apr 2009, 22:24

That's actually another very good question.

Lightndattic · by **Lightndattic** » 20 Apr 2009, 22:30

lamoey wrote:If you can see and/or track it anyone can kill it. The question here is why does the T-38 radar appear to track it without any difficulty?

Maybe he left the Luneburg lens attached. Besides, in a WVR fight, I'm sure even a small radar like the T-38's would be able to get enough of a return off a maneuvering raptor to track it.

rapier01 · by **rapier01** » 20 Apr 2009, 22:51

I hate to break it to you guys- the T-38 does not have a radar. They're used to practice WVR combat- and for that they simulate a gun and boresighted AIM-9s... nothing fancy. Know an acquaintance who did that a few times in support of the Weapons School in the T-38.

Beazz · by **Beazz** » 21 Apr 2009, 00:28

Personally I don't see where that video shows anything. Maybe it was an F22, maybe it wasnt. It sure is not clear what either a/c are and going by the time in the upper right corner of the display, the thing went on for almost 3 minutes. Yea right, F22 fights for 3 mins in a dogfight? Then looses? Whatever this was it was clear it was for some sort of training purpose that no one on here is ever gonna be privvy to. Somehow I don't think the F22 community is sweating bullets over this.

Beazz

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 21 Apr 2009, 02:01

This indicates to me that the USAF could get by with 187 T-38's.

OL

Tinito_16 · by **Tinito_16** » 21 Apr 2009, 02:22

outlaw162 wrote:This indicates to me that the USAF could get by with 187 T-38's.

OL

LOL

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 21 Apr 2009, 04:47

Clearly, the only way you are going to effectively train Raptor Pilots. Is to make the ROE's so much it favor of the opposing aircraft. That the F-22 pilots has to fight for his life..........with every bit of his (or her) abilities. So, expect to see a lot of Raptors in opposing gun sites. Of course in the real world it will be no contest.........

skyhigh · by **skyhigh** » 21 Apr 2009, 07:24

It's like a MiG-17 gunning down an F-4C Phantom II!

You know, small nimble dogfighter against big fly rhino interceptor, dogfighter wins up close.

In this case, a T-38 downs an F-22 Raptor!

shep1978 · by **shep1978** » 21 Apr 2009, 08:21

I bet the anti-Raptor fanboys over at the key publishing forums are beating off hard over this. ;-)