Forum: F-22A Raptor

The F-15 should have a higher top speed than the Raptor since it has fixed inlets which are designed for stealth. Also at high altitude the F-15 saves a lot of fuel, so it could maintain top speed for a little while. The Raptor also would have a compressor stall since it is limited to around mach 2.3 or 2.4 so what is faster. The F-15 Can go 1875 mph at 4500o feet the Raptor is probably around 1640mph at high altitude, but it is classified. Anyone have any ideas??

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I am sure the Raptor can smoke an F-15 in a speed run.

The F-15 mite reach Mach 2.5 for a couple of minutes in ideal conditions (i.e. no external weapons or stores) before it exhausts all of its fuel. Yet, that is hardly practical in the real world. So, any such debate is pointless in my opinion.

On the other hand the F-22 would have far better Subsonic Acceleration and the abilities to Super Cruise for extended periods of time. Which, is far more valuable! Thumb

IMO, the performance of the F119-PW-100 would crush the F100-PW-229 in a speed run. The F119 is designed for MACH 1.5 without it's burners lit, while the F100 couldn't dream of that. Rumors say the F119 makes almost as much power at MIL as the original F100-PW-100 did at MAX. Let's not forget the F100 can exceed the vMAX of the F-16 and F-15 given the proper conditions! I imagine the F119 could due the same to the F-22.

The fixed inlets may be in the minus column on some older aircraft, but the inlet/F119's advanced design should more than compensate. Modern fixed inlets are tuned to handle airflow much like variable inlets of the past. Look at the F-16; it can do MACH 2 with a fixed inlet, and the engine could still push it faster! The design of the inlet (placement, shape, contour, length, etc) were all optimized to give the best flow over the entire envelope of the airframe.

This is all null/void if there is some other limiting factor. IE the composites melt at a specific temp/speed, or the canopy would fail (ala Viper!?!)

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

gosmack wrote:

I am sure the Raptor can smoke an F-15 in a speed run.

The F-22 has. It "smokes" the best F-16s too.

What is the point really? It's not about who can go the fastest. It's about acceleration which the F-22 has in spades and avionics, there again no peer. This is not about some Sunday drag race for pinks, it's for keeps plain and simple. Fighters are designed to win fights, not races at the track.

I'm just a civvie, so the following has a lot of speculation.

Although the F-22's absolute maximum speed has not been declassified at this point, I can say based on comments posted here in the past in combination with the fact that it is so much newer than the F-15 that the former can very likely outrun the latter.

As TEG has stated numerous times, the F119 is both more powerful and more durable than the F100. The engine alone could probably exceed Mach 2.5 with ease in the right airframe. Advances in material science have probably allowed the Raptor's canopy to be constructed to withstand higher temperatures and stresses than the Eagle's canopy could.

I wouldn't be surprised if the F-22 could reach, or even exceed, Mach 3 if it was going all out with no concern for the RAM coatings. In the end, acceleration is better than top speed when you are duking it out. The F-22's high thrust-to-weight and thrust-to-drag ratio insure that it has excellent energy retention and recovery.

At 3 Mn the canopy would melt...

Just my

The F-22 has it all: it has supercruise, super agility, stealth, etc. etc. The graphs attached may be inspiring: in most real-life situations, the F-22 on dry thrust will beat an afterburning F-15 easily. Moreover, top speed means no big deal: the MiG-25 'Foxbat' is way faster than the F-15 and the F-16, but they have suceded in shooting down a number of 'Foxbats' without getting hit in the process. In the end, sensors and weapons are the important thing.

I suppose that in the first graphic the F-15 envelope is the red one and the Raptor's is in rose.... Or not ?

Several aircraft that exists now can easily exceed their design speed limits. As mentioned already, max speed limits are imposed on just about every fighter design that exists due to varying concerns.

It's also true that acceleration is more important to a fighter jock than seeing Mach 2.5. The F-15, on paper, is designed for Mach 2.5. However, ask how many Eagle guys have ever roamed around at that speed?

Most aircraft never would see that kind of speed, much less have the fuel to get to or spend any meaningful time there if they could.

The beauty of the F-22 is it's the best accelerating jet in the world; nobody will out accelerate it. It will also reach it's max speed faster and can spend more time there than anybody else.

Quote:

The F-15 mite reach Mach 2.5 for a couple of minutes in ideal conditions (i.e. no external weapons or stores)

Corsair, the F-15 can reach top speed with 4 AIM-120 or AIM-7 and he can launch them at this speed. No question about this..it was USAF requirement and it was demonstrated.

renatohm, the graphs you gives are clear disinformation. If you had the -1 about F-15, you will see that the 5g envelope at max power is much much greater than the one produced by LM...Yet it's still much inferior to the F-22, no question about that.

Now the F-22 never had a requirement to get to Mach2.5. It would just had added weight, complexity and cost to the aircraft. I think that launching an AIM-120 at Mach 2 from this stealth aircraft would largely beat the Mach 2.5/AIM-7/AIM-120 launch requirement of the F-15 coming in front of enemy aircraft with its large RCS...

[quote="bazdriver"]

Quote:

The F-15 mite reach Mach 2.5 for a couple of minutes in ideal conditions (i.e. no external weapons or stores)

Quote:

Corsair, the F-15 can reach top speed with 4 AIM-120 or AIM-7 and he can launch them at this speed. No question about this..it was USAF requirement and it was demonstrated.

Could you spell out such a profile........ Question

Neno wrote:

I suppose that in the first graphic the F-15 envelope is the red one and the Raptor's is in rose.... Or not ?

It would have been better to label it F100-PW-2XX and F119-PW-100 instead of F-15 and F-22, because it's the thrust envelope depending on mach and altitude for these engines (F100 in AB vs F119 in max dry).

Corsair, first just one detail: employement of the missile is limited to Mach 2.3 (no safe separation above this speed) but carriage can be made up to top speed.

Now for the flight profile. Cannot go into much details but give you some direction..

First there are some go/no go consideration like fuel remaining, target range and aspect angle, air temperature and others... So here is one exemple:

Starting altitude and configuration : 36000ft - 40000ft, Mach 0.8 - 0.9, Mil power, one full centerline tank, full internal tank, 4 AIM-120 on stations 3,4,6 and 7, 2 AIM-120 and 2 AIM-9 on station 2 and 8. Powerplant: 2 PW-220, temperature US standard day or below.

Get full zone 5 afterburner at minmum 97.7% or if necessary use V-MAX switching(only above Mach 1.1), jettison centerline tank when empty or at least before Mach 1.5, jettison stores and wing pylon at classified speed...before hitting or at Mach 2.3 use your missile(s) or keep them if going faster..ending altitude is between 36000ft and higher. You should be at minimum 45000ft to achieve
the Mach 2.5 mark.

What did surprise you in the fact that F-15 can fly such a profile? Don't forget the F-15 was also able to launch the massive ASAT missile in a very demanding flight profile that take the aircraft to 80000ft..

Forum: F-22A Raptor

Which one is faster - The F-22 or F-15?