Forum: F-22A Raptor

Pilotasso wrote:

Bitter sweet news for F-22 fans:

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... &s=AIR

Surprised no coments here bout this, that was 24h ago.

Still has to make it through the full House and Senate. To early to celebrate. Congressional involvement was not unexpected and has nothing to do with the actual need for these airplanes or lack thereof and is politically motivated. Non the less, I'd wait a while to get a feel for where this is going. My opinion is that the USAF might squeeze a few extra jets out of it.

-DA

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DarthAmerica wrote:

Pilotasso wrote:

Bitter sweet news for F-22 fans:

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... &s=AIR

Surprised no coments here bout this, that was 24h ago.

Still has to make it through the full House and Senate. To early to celebrate. Congressional involvement was not unexpected and has nothing to do with the actual need for these airplanes or lack thereof and is politically motivated.

UH huh, and the 187 had nothing to do with politics or *money* either right DA?

Non the less, I'd wait a while to get a feel for where this is going. My opinion is that the USAF might squeeze a few extra jets out of it.

-DA

Here's a query - Let's say we purchased 20-30 a/c more than they think we need and a few years down the road it's proven true.We then take the 20-30 surplus a/c that we don't "need", strip them back down to a less-capable state of operation and sell`em off????? Could we not get back atleast half of the money that we over spent back from those sales?

Ooooo! Here's an even better idea.........Hows-a-bout we don't give the I.M.F. the 100 Billion dollars our president promised them we would give them,and buy a butt-load of Raptors & fund more support for our military families who loose a loved one & stop making my soldiers out there putting "Theirs On The Line For Mine" from ever paying taxes !!!!!!!!.......................naaaah,that would be dumb,sorry..................

cody302 wrote:

Here's a query - Let's say we purchased 20-30 a/c more than they think we need and a few years down the road it's proven true.We then take the 20-30 surplus a/c that we don't "need", strip them back down to a less-capable state of operation and sell`em off????? Could we not get back atleast half of the money that we over spent back from those sales?

Ooooo! Here's an even better idea.........Hows-a-bout we don't give the I.M.F. the 100 Billion dollars our president promised them we would give them,and buy a butt-load of Raptors & fund more support for our military families who loose a loved one & stop making my soldiers out there putting "Theirs On The Line For Mine" from ever paying taxes !!!!!!!!.......................naaaah,that would be dumb,sorry..................

You mean support for the families of Boeing workers, right? Isn't budget diversions toward this aircraft at the cost military families part of the issue? Does it or did it ever make a difference to the 'Grunt in country'? I think the big elephant in the room here is that this is a toy, phallic and bold but that only a few get to play with. Yeah, American-made but too precious to be exposed to any hurt. I love the Raptor, but it has life only if other things don't. Families can't have everything they want and neither can governments. It's called prioritizing.

cody, with all due respect bro... you want to take brand spanking new hypothetical $160m block 35 F-22s and strip them down in 7,8 yrs after hypothetically being proven wrong, to an export-block negative-20 something?!?

If anything: maybe just export some of the earlier lots, with perhaps a retrofitted APG-79 or 80?

In the meanwhile, IMHO we have to support Congress with their decision making, even more than DoD's - as in the end at least they can be voted out if they make the wrong call over and over and over again...

Thank YOU geogen,that's the kind of answer/alternative I was asking for and you are absolutely correct in all but one thing......too many of them make the wrong calls over,over,and over again but they keep getting elected.

And now.......for npad.
There are the majority of members here who are far more intelligent than I am,that's why I'm here asking questions.Trying to learn! I do not know you from Adam,so in my stupidity I can only answer to the best of my feeble intellect and if I'm too much of an idiot........I'll leave you good folks in peace.

NO NPAD...not Boeing families, do you have any friggin' clue what the I.M.F. is???? Do have any friggin' clue what 1 Billion is??

I'll lay it out for you..If I gave you 1 dollar every second,how long would it take for me to have given you 1 Billion dollars............ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (answer)............31 years!!

The I.M.F. is the International Monetary Fund. We are giving European countries THREE THOUSAND & ONE HUNDRED YEARS worth of money to help THEM through these "economic challenges"

And NO, I don't just mean the 'Grunt In Country'..I mean all of them jackass!

If you only have a hand full of any a/c,it does not matter how awesome they are....they're not a threat. When you have a bunch of them they're called "Screw You " weapons. That means regardless of the oppositions capabilities you can say "SCREW YOU" and they will fear you!! Which means the bad guys air-to-ground won't have fighter cover,because our phallics killed their fighters.Which in turn means that "dem thar Grunts In Country" don't have to worry about looking over their shoulders for Mil-24's or Sukhois, which in turn means they don't get shot at as much.Which means they are more likely to come home to those families who have been trying to get along on that meager excuse of a paycheck their Grunt gets every month.
You need to get over your little "Phallic Envy" issues. Ofcourse they are in the hands of a precious few.....we'll only have 180something of them...and they only have ONE SEAT each!!!!!!

Now I'll close my rant with an apology to everyone else for me behaving like a fool, I'm Sorry..............I must have put my Maxi-nPad on adhesive side up this morning!!! Embarassed

(see what i did there with the maxipad thing........pretty good huh.)

Guys/Gals,

Two things. "grunts" on the ground don't worry about air breathing threats because they don't exist except as cruise missiles. Second, the full house and senate have not provided funding for more Raptors.

As bad as some want it to be 1980-1989, it's not.

-DA

DarthAmerica wrote:

Guys/Gals,

Two things. "grunts" on the ground don't worry about air breathing threats because they don't exist except as cruise missiles. Second, the full house and senate have not provided funding for more Raptors.

As bad as some want it to be 1980-1989, it's not.

-DA

`Cmon Darth,can't I pretend it is............ Crying or Very sad

DarthAmerica wrote:

Guys/Gals,

Two things. "grunts" on the ground don't worry about air breathing threats because they don't exist except as cruise missiles. Second, the full house and senate have not provided funding for more Raptors.

As bad as some want it to be 1980-1989, it's not.

-DA

Don't grunts drive tanks,hum-vee's,mobile artillery?

DarthAmerica wrote:

Guys/Gals,

Two things. "grunts" on the ground don't worry about air breathing threats because they don't exist except as cruise missiles. Second, the full house and senate have not provided funding for more Raptors.

As bad as some want it to be 1980-1989, it's not.

-DA

Tell that to "grunts" on either side of SK/NK borders; the entirety of Mid-East borders; unfortunately still on either side of Indi-Pak borders; and sadly on other various Asian borders (including perhaps Far East Ru/Sino borders). And looking 3,4-10 yrs out, the 'air-breathing' capability could very well sadly threaten such "grunts" on Euro-theatre borders (given the wrong mix of future hard-line, ideological geo-strategic politics).

In the next 5+ yrs, more friendly Army/Marine forces will at least be procuring (out of their respective budgets) more mobile, short/med range force-protection SAM systems (e.g. ground launched AIM-9x) with ability to counter growing Cruise Missile threats as well as conventional helo and air-breathing attack threats.

As for 'neo-con types' (on all sides) wanting to take us back to 1980-89: well, that would indeed be tragic and we (on all sides) definitely all need to guard against such natural motivations and escalations. But with regard to justifying 60 or 80 or whatever additional USAF modern block (upgradeable) F-22s as part of US's total 'mix' recapitalization plan, going forward... well that has nothing (or shouldn't have much) to do with liberal-conservative US politics at all.

It's purely about assessing (and best sustaining) the most potent, efficient, reliable airpower modernization plan over the next 5,10+ yrs, while mitigating unintended strategic gap imprints as a consequence. Therein demands the Congressional analysis and briefings, etc.

geo......who said anything about liberal or conservative politics? I think what Darth meant/or as I took it - was the good `ol days when we had an executive/senatorial/congressional houses of leadership that believed in a larger and more capable military. I tell you what though...now that you mention it.....let's look at those factors

first - we got oil embargo's,Mustang II's and Pintos,the need to create an actual 'misery index' in order to quantify how far in the crapper we were,double digit unemployment,and 444 days of captivity.

then - the dollar rose to all time highs,unemployment went waaaay down,$20 bucks a barrel,hostages returned,a big a$$ wall came tumbling down, and....oh yea...we became the lone superpower.

God those day SUCKED. Twisted Evil

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews ... 1420090622

looks like making an exportable F-22 is going to cost alot more....

solomon wrote:

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-40521420090622

looks like making an exportable F-22 is going to cost alot more....

I wouldn't bet on making the F-22 exportable. It's a far more complicated process than people imagine and you get far more bang for the buck with the F-35. I mean seriously. The F-22 frenzy never ceases to amaze. It's a great plane, I would not be surprised or mind if we got a FEW MORE as a result of the politics. But in the end, the time has come to move on. More are not justified and the only fighter gap is the gap in logic that has people believing that we need to field force levels to meet hypothetical threats.

These discussions will be a cute footnote in defense history as we move beyond the Cold War mentality that is spawning these F-22 death throes. Seriously, if we aren't planning on building them in at least 2x to 3x the current number then 60 more aren't worth the trouble when we have so many other things we really need to address.

-DA

WAIT,WAIT,Wait, I don't know why no one is asking this................seriously....How hard would it be,logistically and financially, to(say we ended all production right now) restart the production 3,5,7,10 years down the road.???? Would it really be all that traumatic? I ask because it seems that the impression is once production ends......that's it,it's dead and can never be revived. Is it possible to put the program in 'suspended animation' so to speak?

cody302 wrote:

WAIT,WAIT,Wait, I don't know why no one is asking this................seriously....How hard would it be,logistically and financially, to(say we ended all production right now) restart the production 3,5,7,10 years down the road.???? Would it really be all that traumatic? I ask because it seems that the impression is once production ends......that's it,it's dead and can never be revived. Is it possible to put the program in 'suspended animation' so to speak?

Yes, it is very possible. Anybody saying different has an agenda. The only issue would be cost. However, any such restarting of production would be to deal with emergency anyway thus negating cost as a primary gating item.

EDIT: for lead time figure 6-18 months depending on urgency and status of subcomponents vendors.

-DA

Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-22 vs. Congress