Forum: Off-topic

At what age and rank do fighter pilots retire from flying combat missions?

The majority of Russian VVS retire from combat missions in their late fifties!

The world's leading jet flying ace, Colonel Giora Epstein of the Israeli Air Force, flew his last flying mission on May 27, 1997 at age 59.

But I bet most U.S. combat pilots retire from flying quite prematurely, in their early to mid thirties.

What do you think?

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While I'm sure there is an upper limit on the age for flying, I think its more often a rank/progression issue than an age issue. The higher up you move in the chain the more time you spend flying a desk and the less time you have for flying planes. Once you make full bird your flight time is fairly well diminished.

Plus the longer you stay in, the better and better the civilian airline pay looks (LOL).

Bodizzle has it. When you make LTC, you're too busy running your squadron to fly downrange very much. When you're the DO or the Sq/CC, you still do fly, but nowhere near as much as the LTs or Captains. Just too much time and responsibility to fly regularly.

When you become the Vice Wing/CC or the Wing King, you try to fly at least once per month. A little bit more, depending on your Wing, but not much more than that. Going downrange is almost a non-option. Your job is to be responsible for an entire base, and its associated aircraft and personnel.

After that, if you aren't already a 1 Star, you're pinning it on, and then your flying time is greatly reduced. However, I will not comment on whether they get any downrange time.

So if you're a full bird colonel, you don't get to fly alongside your squadron mates as if it were your favorite pastime anymore, right?

When you pin on your eagle, you're really not assigned to a squadron, per se, anyway. A flyer at that point is an OG/CC, a Vice Wing/CC, or a Wing/CC. LTC is typically the last time you are assigned to a squadron-level billet.

As far as their currency goes, even those of us assigned to a regular flying billet don't always get to fly as much as we might like to.

But what about age? Why is it less of a factor when retiring from flying combat missions?

I could tell that Russian VVS pilots tend to suffer more bone injuries from ejections because they retire late, in their late fifties, whereas USAF pilots tend to retire earlier.

The age of the pilot and his rank are not always congruent. You may have guys who commission later, but still get a rated slot, so they might be an older Captain or Major and still flying operational missions.

Then again, you might have some fast burner, who makes rank quickly, and thereby goes into staff billets much more quickly.

Whereas a lot of Russian officers were career tracked, a majority of our commissioned officers do not stay for their full 20 years, as many choose to get out and fly for the airlines. Less stress, more money, no deployments, and a lot of flying hours.

Just out of curiosity, do you work in a medical related field where you saw all of these Russian pilots? Just wondering, because I can name you perhaps 7 or 8 people tops, whom I've known personally to have pulled handles at one point or another during their career.

skyhigh wrote:

The world's leading jet flying ace, Colonel Giora Epstein of the Israeli Air Force, flew his last flying mission on May 27, 1997 at age 59.

Old discussion, so to speak.

One of Epstein's 17 kills was a helicopter. He had 16 jet on jet.

McConnell had 16 jet on jet.

German Me-262 driver had 20 kills, none on jets.

Pepelayev, Russian MiG-15 guy claimed 23, they give him 21, but some were B-29's.

Whose the world's leading jet flying ace?

One of the Tucson Guard instructors soloed the F-16 at 53 years of age and flew it to age 55. My back hurts thinking about it.

OL

I think he meant current jet ace.

Point taken. Communication is a fragile thing.

Very Happy

OL

this might sound stupid, but can a pilot delay getting a promotion to continue flying?

In a word.....yes.

Yeah...it's either called "Not playing The Game" or "Not Drinking the Kool-Aid". Take, for instance, Guard and Reserve pilots. For the most part, they joined the Guard or Reserve, because they don't like to play the "Officer Game". They have no intentions of serving in staff billets at the Pentagon, or making those key PCSs to progress like career-minded officers.

At some point, even active duty officers have to make that decision of "Do I want to be a good pilot, a good officer, or a combination of the two?"

A great pilot who might not like to play the officer game will go for flying slot after flying slot, but he's probably going to retire as a Major. No problem with that. I can live on retired Major pay, as I'm sure many of you could.

A good officer probably isn't that good in the jet, but he's served in just the right staff jobs, and hobnobbed with just the right Colonels and Generals to where he can progress. I know a couple of guys like this, and they are absolutely lousy pilots. They're too busy trying to get their Master's and serve in the right staff jobs to really give a d@mn about flying.

A combination of the two, one who knows how to properly balance flying and "The Game" end up being good commanders. I have a commander like this.

But in Operation Rolling Thunder during the Vietnam War, the late Brig. Gen. Robin Olds (1922-2007), who was then a 44 year old colonel (O-6) and CO of the 8th TFW "Wolf Pack", deployed to Ubon RTAFB, flew with his fellow pilots like it was his favorite pastime when he commanded No. 1 Sqn RAF in ETO WWII.

Notably, he was the chief architect of Operation Bolo (watch the Dogfights "Air Ambush" episode for the entire story) and led the first flight with the callsign of his family name! (what a coincidence)

After being promoted to brigadier general (O-7), Olds also flew unauthorized combat missions because "he wanted to straighten the situation out for his Rhino-flying comrades who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag like their Navy compatriots!"

What do you think?

Forum: Off-topic

Retirement from flying combat missions