Forum: F-16 Procedures

How often do you pilots out there practice emergency procedures like engine out, engine fire, any other type?

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Quote:

How often do you pilots out there practice emergency procedures like engine out, engine fire, any other type?

I'm thinking this is stuff practiced in the sims more than in actual fighters.....

Vypergrl wrote:

Quote:

How often do you pilots out there practice emergancy procedures like engine out, engine fire, any other type?

I'm thinking this is stuff practiced in the sims more than in actual fighters.....

Yep...except for an FCF (Functional Check Flight) you wouldn't want to shutdown a perfectly good motor just to practice airstart procedures, although the SFO profile is done for real occasionally but with the engine at idle power. Deep Stall recovery is done a LOT in the sim when you can't make it to Eddie for a spin-chute equipped jet.

Another question to the pilots: have any of your instructors or STAN/EVALs ever popped a "virtual" IFE on you during actual flight just so you can recite the bold-face and corrective action?

In some situations, pilots facing these challenges, they may need to land in small airstrips or even highways!! This is the scenario done by some airforces, especially the Republic of Singapore Air Force every 5 years, virtually every "aircraft" do this, including vipers and Hawkeyes

In the sims I have worked on you either practice IFEs or weapons delivery (playing the piccolo) almost exclusively.

Vypergrl wrote:

Quote:

How often do you pilots out there practice emergency procedures like engine out, engine fire, any other type?

I'm thinking this is stuff practiced in the sims more than in actual fighters.....

I knew that much already......

You fly SFO's to maintain currency. I believe you have to do at least one every 30 days (for real, in the jet - again its simulated flameout). Other than that, you have to do two EP sims per year. One per half.

Cylon

In BAF you need to do an EP every 2 months, so 6 each year. They will put you on no-fly if you failed to do this. This can be a real pain in the *** when going on deployment and finding out over there you still have to do one...

Greetz

Joined: Feb 01, 2007 - 02:38 AM Posts: 0 Status: Offline

LinkF-16SimDude wrote:

except for an FCF (Functional Check Flight) you wouldn't want to shutdown a perfectly good motor just to practice airstart procedures

You seem to imply that an engine shut-down is part of the FCF.......

Rest asured that when flying a Viper (with either engine) the pilot would never command an engine shut-down without a very VERY good reason.

I may even let one run if it was on fire!? Just to get closer to home before yanking that pretty yellow/black loop, espically if someone was shooting at me!

Sometimes the engine (again either type) will shut-down on it's own. In that case you're no longer practicing your airstart/FO procedures.

As an engine mechanic, I will say it's a sense of pride for engine shops to NEVER have an uncommanded shut-down. (Knocking on wood....)

Quote:

As an engine mechanic, I will say i'ts a sense of pride for engine shops to NEVER have an uncommanded shut-down. (Knocking on wood....)

Your talking while it's in flight correct?

Joined: Feb 01, 2007 - 02:38 AM Posts: 0 Status: Offline

EVER........

In the air or on the ground, the engine should NEVER shut-down, without the operator telling it to.

(Unless you do something else dumb that would force it to shut down, IE, no fuel.............)

Bix,

Ok, the reason I was asking is I witnessed an uncommanded shutdown during taxi. Cannon plug had no locking feature and backed off. I don't remember what harness was the culpret but I think it was W-5 or W-7. Either way the engine shut down and the EPU fired and the pilot stopped. This was on taxi to EOR in preperation for a FCF flight.

So for never having a shut down I am guessing your referring to your own shop, otherwise it's already happened. I also know an instance where the first stage fan came apart and the engine essentially ate it's self. This was one of the jets we had at Moody in Georgia. I don't remember what serial number it was or anything but I do remember that it was a manufacture defect.

Joined: Feb 01, 2007 - 02:38 AM Posts: 0 Status: Offline

There isn't a plug on a F100 that would cause an engine shut-down. The F100 engines have a fully self contained electrical system that works from spool-up to shut-down.

The F100 engine will operate as long as it gets fuel from the jet and a throttle input (which is mechanical) .....

For the record, if the throttle comes undone.......Hold on. It will not shut off and MAY go to full AB! Hope the main fuel SOV is unsafetied for your ground run! Pilots.......... well, I'm not sure what you should do cause that SOV is wired open from the outside!?

Not saying it don't happen, but no engine guy wants it to happen to "their motor".

Sounds like he may have shut the engine down due to the electrical system failure or the EPU activation. Unless the GE requires electrical input from the aircraft for operation.

I do know the engine shut down during taxi. I do know the EPU fired as advertised. I do know the pilot didn't shut the engine down, it was uncommanded. I do know that the root cause was a wire harness that had no locking feature that was on the engine. This of course was on a block 30, I don't remember if it was a 110 or a 100 engine. Now I don't know if there was a MEC failure as well that caused it to shut down, however I do know the engine was removed to backshop for repair after that I don't know the history, but I think the engine went over test cell eventually. I am not trying say what is or was supposed to happen, I am just telling you what did happen as I was there and remember it quite well, as it was my first experience with a jet firing the EPU.

Joined: Feb 01, 2007 - 02:38 AM Posts: 0 Status: Offline

If it was a Block 30 then it would have been a GE F110, not sure how their engine control system works.

On a PW F100 any of the electrical components on the engine or between the engine and airframe could fail without the engine flaming out from said failure. Unless that failure was internal to the Main Fuel Control that would affect SEC mode. You may get an auto-transfer to SEC mode, but it would continue to run provided it had fuel. The PW DEEC is smart enough to make up it's own data if the data from the airframe is missing or corrupt in some way. (Signal noise, bad plug, etc)

Then again was it driver induced? They have a hard time admitting that they "may have" moved the throttle to OFF, not IDLE, without a engine mechanic showing them the engine download data....... This has been known to cause a die-out, or an compressor-stall from time to time.

A throttle mis-rig can also cause that type of situation. OFF not IDLE but is usually found during the engine interface run performed as follow-on maintenance to any engine installation.

Was your example a failure in the SOV for main fuel? I know ours (Blk 42) are safety-wired to the open position to prevent them from failing closed in flight. They are un-safetied for ground runs just-in-case.

Are all the other blocks/FMS jets having their main fuel SOV safety-wired to the open position?

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Emergency Procedure Practice