Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

I guess you should be used to this by now.

1) I've read that a B-52 was able to shoot down two MiG-21s with its gun turret. So I'm wondering: Do bombers get those kill symbol things painted on them like fighters do if they score an AA kill?

2) Have two bombers ever exchanged gunfire with one-another? Perhaps in WWII? I know that it's not very likely given the way that bombers enter combat, but war is never completely predictable.

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Yes to #1! See - http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6 ... amp;nseq=9

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A Boeing B-52D Stratofortress, Air Force serial number 55-083, and nicknamed the ‘Diamond Lil,’ she flew from 1957-1983 on over 200 combat missions, and racked up over 15,000 flight hours.

During the Vietnam War and while flying out of Utapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southern Thailand, the crew of ‘Diamond Lil’, mission callsign 'Ruby 3', shot down a MiG-21 'Fishbed' northeast of Hanoi during ‘Linebacker II’ on Christmas Eve, 1972. Targeted by tail gunner Airman First-Class Albert E. Moore, from San Bernardino, CA, and flying with the 307th Strategic Wing, he acquired a fast-moving bogey on his radar scope. He notified his crew to dispense chaff and flares, got target lock-on at 4,000 yards, and as the bandit closed to 2,000 yards, opened fire. He continued firing until the target blossomed on his scope, then disappeared. His feat was witnessed by TSgt. Clarence W. Chute, also a gunner, who saw the MIG-21 “on fire and falling away.' The downed fighter was one of only two confirmed MiG "kills" by a B-52D bomber in the entire conflict.

Today, the bomber is located near the north gate of the United States Air Force Academy, near Colorado Springs, Colorado.

There's a B-52D MiG killer (SN #56-0676) parked near the main gate at Fairchild, and yes, it does have a kill star painted on it.

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/247660.html

To the best of my knowledge, no heavy strategic bombers did combat against each other though.

I say heavy strategic bombers, because inevitably some wisenheimer will point out that "In World War I there was a large German biplane that just happened to be flying at the same time as a large RAF biplane, and..." Laughing

http://blinkynet.net/wwii/do200.html

How about scoring a kill without even firing a shot? An EF-111A Raven was credited with a "kill" during Desert Storm in this manner. On the night of January 17, 1991, an Iraqi Mirage F.1 flew into the ground while chasing EF-111A serial number 66-0016. Even though the Raven is unarmed and has no air-to-air capability, the Raven crew was given credit for the kill.

That's called a maneuvering kill, and such kills are rare these days.

ANY kills are rare these days Hoss!

TC wrote:

ANY kills are rare these days Hoss!

And then there is the F-15E crew who bombed an airborne helicopter, of the 2 A2A gun kills by the A-10 (only gun kills of the Gulf War). You can never be too sure of what will get a kill.

I always enjoyed the story of the Thud crew, who jettisoned their MERs on the MiG-17, and downed it...one of its 3 AA kills. That bird is sitting the AF Museum now.

How about another one?

3) Are bombers (or any other aircraft, for that matter), categorized in terms of "generations" like fighter jets are? You know, how the Me 262 is a 1st generation jet fighter and the F-22 is a 5th generation jet fighter?

No. Bombers don't change technology rapidly enough to bother with that. If you want to get technical, the whole "generation" thing is just media fodder anyway. Nobody on the inside really even talks that way very much, unless they're talking to someone in the media.

And anyway, why don't today's bombers like the B-1 Lancer and Tu-160 Blackjack carry defensive cannons on the tail, top, bottom and front?

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And anyway, why don't today's bombers like the B-1 Lancer and Tu-160 Blackjack carry defensive cannons on the tail, top, bottom and front?

There's no need really, with the advent of long-range missiles like the Phoenix, AMRAAM, Amraamski, and the Russian version of the Phoenix (can't remember the name), bombers would be shot down before the bad guy got close enough for the bomber to make use of the defensive armaments. The guns took up weight that could be used to carry more bombs, so they were deleted.

The last USAF bomber to carry guns was the B-52D, and the last Soviet/Russian was the Bear.

TC, do you have a link to the story of that Thud Kill

I don't envy the pilots that got hit by the GAU-8.

Not quite PT.

The BONE and the Blackjack don't carry turrets for several reasons. They're both supersonic. Turrets create drag, and yes, added the added weight as PT stated.

Today, we do a lot of initial strikes with cruise missiles, and L-O strike aircraft. Many times one bomb or cruise missile is all that is needed, so bombers don't fly in the huge formations that they did in WWII. They go in when and where there is a low, or non-existant fighter threat. There's no longer a need for them to have a self-defense capability, because really, the enemy isn't going to see that bomber coming.

It's a much different war these days...

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Bomber Questions