F-16.net

Newbie Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

Yeah, I know these can get complex...

But, in a quest to build a database of such things for an RPG I run, I'm looking for it.

These days, what's the sticker price of a new F-16? In as much as a military aircraft HAS a sticker price, of course.

Right now, I'm just looking for unit cost, as the numbers of aircraft players buy can vary widely.

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F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

If you are looking at U.S. F-16 "sale". Much of it is smoke and mirrors. Look at the Polish deal. The physical "unit cost" for a particular deal is used to measure how much Foreign aid money ( U.S. taxpayer money ), "Offsets" or whatever, are kicked back to the company. It really shouldn't be confused with the idea of being a traditional sales deal, because it isn't. Or you have things like the old Iranian F-14 "sale". The Shah of Iran contributed lots of cash to assist in F-14 R&D. The UAE F-16 Block 60 deal, where they themselves contribute some of the cash for development. Every deal is different. Many times in FMS though it is smoke and mirrors. We provide military aid to a country, that country uses those same U.S. tax dollars or even a 0% loan over years from the U.S. government to pay for it. Sometimes that loan is completely forgiven in an FMS deal. There are a few different "plays" you can call from the FMS playbook. Most of it though involves corporate welfare and the announced "sale" helps boost company stock price, but thats about it. Of course all the accessories you get with an F-16 puts other smaller companies on the same FMS gravy train. It's a goofy system.

Newbie Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

So there's nothing like a basic sort of per-unit price I can give to players looking to budget?

Gah. Sad

Enthusiast Joined: Oct 25, 2003 Posts: 74 Status: Offline

*shrug*

Complexities aside...

Most websites put it around $20-25,000,000 for a C (single seat) and $30-35,000,000 for a D (two-seat). Naturally, the single-seat is more common.

If anyone can help out these numbers, that would be good Wink

(oh, by the way, as elp said, it's way more complex than a sticker price, but this is a "playable" number, like Monopoly money)

Newbie Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

Thanks F4!

That's *precisely* what I was looking for...Some quick'n'dirty way to budget it, so I as a GM can tell players, "No, you can't afford that big an air force, quit toking the bong!" or that they in fact CAN afford that big an air force.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

You could take one of the most poor countries in the world..... And if they had a couple billion of U.S. mil aid, U.S. congressional approval, offsets, and a proper FMS paper trail...... They too, could "buy" them and be the happy "owner" of F-16s.

Because the unit price changes so much depending on the deal... I am sure for the purposes of a game... almost any number from 30-60 billion would work. I would pick the high number for a "game play" thing.. that way at least some of the expense of support equipment and all the other goodies it needs to fly, would be kind of accounted for.

Newbie Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

I'm figuring that sorta flows into the usual budget process, just to keep myself sane. Very Happy

(And we have now reached the point of information overload...I've learned enough from here and elsewhere to at least sound like I know what I'm talking about, which is about as far as I think I could go. Thanks everybody!)

I was the USAF Production Program Manager in the late 90's and "bought" 10 attrition reserve Block 50 Vipers (this is from memory so the facts may be of,but the numbers are close

1996 - 6 Vipers - approx $19M each
1997 - 3 Vipers - approx $21M each
1998 - 1 Viper - approx $23M

Important to note that this price was just the airplane. When introducing a new airplane to an air force like the Viper to poland, there are a whole lot of other costs that must be factored in. Training, tech orders, initial spares, etc... The final price is usually MUCH higher, sometimes a factor of 3 or 4.

Also, the term "Offset" was used earlier in that money flowing back to Lockheed. Actually, offsets normally are benefits that the country gets in return for getting the contract. Cleverest one I found was a country that operated F-5s was buying F-16s and having to choose between GE or PW motors. GE offered J85 engines for free. Seems they had a warehouse full. Would keep the F-5's flying until the F-16s came on board.

Roscoe? whose posts I remember from rec.aviation.military? Welcome to our Tarver-Free Forum!!!!! Wink

Newbie Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

Somehow, Roscoe, that doesn't surprise me. Smile

I've family that work in Army acquisitions, and have heard of some...interesting deals.

Thanks for the info, BTW.

tarver-free...gotta like that! Very Happy

Roscoe, were you in TPS when we did a "JP-8 cold-soaking" test using a Penn ANG KC-135E, and ended up breaking their boom off in a C-17?
And per chance did you used to drive an 87 Carrera?

Nope, that wasn't me. Wish I had a carrera Very Happy

I went through the Charm school 92A and immediately left Eddies Air Patch for Kelly Field. Spent the time prior to school at South Base...

Kelly Field - another Texas boy.... Wink

Only briefly, but my second son was born there...

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F-16 FMS costs...