Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Most of the testing videos I've seen on youtube thus far have only shown the pilots doing very "light stuff", and that is to be expected at this stage. But how long do you folks think it will be until we start seeing the F-35 really put through its paces and see what it is truly capable of in terms of maneuvering, climbing, acceleration, etc? I seem to recall that much of the cool stuff regarding the Raptor's performance didn't become evident until about the time it entered operational service. It'll be really cool to get to see the F-35 doing stuff like minimum radius turns with the fire lit and other high G maneuvers.

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Operational sounds right.

I saw the F-22 back in 1989, and new what it could do in a demo. I asked every year "when are we going to see this thing put thru it's paces". They had very nice fly-bye's but that was it, for 15 yaers. I still don't think we have seen all of what it could do. The F-35 seems to be going a little faster in its gestation, so my uneducated guess is Shrug

Fox1 wrote:

Most of the testing videos I've seen on youtube thus far have only shown the pilots doing very "light stuff", and that is to be expected at this stage. But how long do you folks think it will be until we start seeing the F-35 really put through its paces and see what it is truly capable of in terms of maneuvering, climbing, acceleration, etc? I seem to recall that much of the cool stuff regarding the Raptor's performance didn't become evident until about the time it entered operational service. It'll be really cool to get to see the F-35 doing stuff like minimum radius turns with the fire lit and other high G maneuvers.

Expecting to see some awesome stuff. Low speed handling will far outdo the venerable F-16, AOA performance is significantly better and turn performance is right up there with it. Wouldn't surprise me if it flies some demos with JDAMS flashing its bays.

B. Bolsøy
Oslo

The F-35 is on the market and the economic crisis... The sooner is the better for PR.

But LM must also consider a side effect; If the F-35 performs too well; This time politicians (in US) will not miss the opportunity to question the F-22.

Roll rate? Personally, I'd like to see Dwight's FB-35 take over the F-35A's allocation budget and forgive roll rates, etc.. Let Raptors do the flying stuff for next 20 yrs Smile

strykerxo wrote:

I saw the F-22 back in 1989, and new what it could do in a demo.

Really?!?!...Are you sure about that?

strykerxo wrote:

I still don't think we have seen all of what it could do.

In terms of the demo, you won't see all the F-22 can do (in terms of it's maneuver capability) anytime soon...if ever.

r2d2 wrote:

The F-35 is on the market and the economic crisis... The sooner is the better for PR.

Agree that standing up the F-35 Lightning II demo as soon as possible will be excellent for the F-35 program. The USAF plans to receive it's operational F-35As starting in 2013 or so. Given enough operational F-35s to declare FOC at it's first base and then give about 2 years after that is when I predict the first USAF F-35A Demo Team to stand up.

r2d2 wrote:

But LM must also consider a side effect; If the F-35 performs too well; This time politicians (in US) will not miss the opportunity to question the F-22.

By that time (beyond year 2014), the F-22 production line would already be winding down or even closed. Hopefully, the USAF will get the additional 60 or so aircraft to boost F-22 numbers to around 247-250+ range before that happens.

And no worries, the F-35 envelope isn't near the F-22. No matter what the F-35 does in it's demo, it will clearly be no F-22.

yeah, but it ought to beat any of the teens

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

yeah, but it ought to beat any of the teens

Among the Lightning II's design objectives is to either meet or exceed legacy aircraft's performance its designed to replace. In the case of the USAF's F-35A, its expected to exceed the best F-16s in KPPs (i.e. acceleration, clime rate, range, endurance, AoA, etc.) In others it will equal or not surpass the F-16 by any meaningful margin.

Of course, this is taking into account a fully loaded, ready for war F-35 with full fuel and 2 AMRAAMs, 2 JDAMs and a 25MM gun. A comparatively loaded F-16 cannot claim the same and you'll never see the Viper do a demo profile in that configuration.

My guess is when the USAF F-35A demo profile is made, it will look similar to the current Viper East, West, and PACAF demos. However, my hope is they will adopt the Lockheed Martin Viper Demo profile to the future F-35A demo as it is the most aggressive of the bunch and looks the best. I would guess they will throw in a higher alpha pass as the Lightning is capable of sustained higher alpha and as in the F-22 demo, an open weapons bay pass.

Remember, the biggest advances (and investment) in the F-35 over any legacy fighter is it's inherent stealth and superior sensors and sensor fusion.

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

strykerxo wrote:

I saw the F-22 back in 1989, and new what it could do in a demo.

Really?!?!...Are you sure about that?

All right I will be more general: the YF-22 and 1990ish Poke

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

Among the Lightning II's design objectives is to either meet or exceed legacy aircraft's performance its designed to replace. In the case of the USAF's F-35A, its expected to exceed the best F-16s in KPPs (i.e. acceleration, clime rate, range, endurance, AoA, etc.) In others it will equal or not surpass the F-16 by any meaningful margin.

If I may direct your attention to a good article by Andy Nativi in the latest issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology. An overview of the F-35s capabilites and a couple of interesting performance metrics. For instance a previous (though not conclusive) estimate for dash speed is Mach 1.67, and how does a 55 degrees AOA sound? I think the superbug - even F-22 - will get some decent competition at those air shows.

B. Bolsøy
Oslo

If in Mil power a Viper needs AB to catch up, and it has a similar Max instantaneous turn rate as the Viper, does that mean it would sustain a faster 360 turn at airshows?

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

If in Mil power a Viper needs AB to catch up, and it has a similar Max instantaneous turn rate as the Viper, does that mean it would sustain a faster 360 turn at airshows?

Several Viper guys on this site I think will agree with me that a clean F-16 is very impressive in terms of acceleration and climb rates. Certain model F-16s can turn better than others given same or similar conditions.

A clean F-16 needs AB to catch an F-35 only under certain conditions. If the conditions / parameters are the same or are similar, the answer is yes.

certain conditions being that the F-35 has 5,000lbs of weapons and 13,000lbs of gas and is in a mil power 30 degree climb. Any way you slice it, the 27,000 lb hot rod used AB to keep pace with the 47,000 lb "dog" in Mil power. Sure if you put 20,000 lbs of weapons and 18,000 lbs of gas on the Lightning then the Viper should slide right on by it.

You got it.

lol, as long as we are on the same page

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

How long until we start seeing max performance demos?