Forum: F-16 Procedures

Hi, everybody

I'm unsure if this is the best section to ask this, but I was wondering about a few things recently, concerning combat communications. Of course, if some/all af the answers are classified or "no-talk" here, make sure you don't answer them Very Happy

Shall we begin ? Ok, let's go :

1°) Radio equipment & frequencies

No, I won't ask about frequencies used Smile

I was under the impression that combat pilots (and others) could listen to several (2 ?) radio frequencies at the same time, possibly tuned on each different ear. Is that correct ?
If it is, I suppose one of the radios tuned is the control frequency (ATC, AWACS, GCI). Do pilots inside a flight have a separate frequency so that they can talk to each other without bothering anyone else, or must they use a "general" frequency whenever they want to transmit each other instructions ?
I'm talking as much in normal environment as in combat environment.

2°) ABMs

Secondly. When in a combat environment/exercise, pilots do of course switch to AWACS ABM's frequencies for control and information. My question is : are there several ABMs in an AWACS plane (I would guess so) ? How are different flights assigned to an ABM (if different flights are assigned to different ABMs) : by area (how big ?), by mission ?
Because in a (large) combat zone, radio comms could probably quickly become saturated if there are several flights engaging several bandit groups. To avoid this flights would be assigned to different ABM frequencies ?
Or would only radio efficient comms be enough to keep things well ?
And, lastly, back to 1°), if flights don't have a separate channel to communicate, radio saturation risks growing rapidly, doesn't it ?

Of course, if you find this boring or anything, please fell free to skip this thread Wink

Hope my questions aren't too unanswerable Rolling Eyes

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Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

I think they use Blackberries now;) j/k

Forum Veteran Joined: Jul 01, 2007 - 07:22 PM Posts: 620

We should. But we have a UHF primary radio that we use to communicate with our flight and anyone else outside our flight such as AWACS, JTACs, etc. We have a VHF aux that we use to communicate within the flight. All comm goes to both ears but we can distinguish between the two by running split volumes. I usually have the aux louder than the primary since I want to hear what my flight has to say over anyone else.

Also, each AWACS has many Weapons Directors in the back. Each flight is usually assigned one for their entire mission. In large force excercises several flights will be assigned one WD.

You are correct in that comm discipline and brevity become extremely important. Sometimes it is inevitable that comm gets saturated but if we use proper comm discipline then things work out fine.

Wow, thank you very much Smile

Very valuable information here, much better than trying to guess ! And you followed brevity by saying so much in so few words Wink

So, last unclear [Link pending approval] In large exercises with lot of combat in the same zone, how many flights would typically be assigned to the same WD ? I suppose the WDs must communicate quite a bit with each other if that number is low (like 1 or 2). And how would the flights be grouped (like, two flights that have the same kind of mission (ex: a CAP) would be assigned the same WD, or two flights that will operate in the very same [Link pending approval]) ?

PS : is there a difference between Air Battle Manager and Weapon Director ? I have a USAF document that says "ABM/WD" throughout

Forum Veteran Joined: Jul 01, 2007 - 07:22 PM Posts: 620

ABM/WD is used interchangeably. As to how many flights get assigned to one and how they work together, the answer is the typical fighter pilot answer of "it depends." There is no way to clearly answer that without opening up tactics, techniques and procedures. Just know that whatever cards are dealt, the whole team works together and we get the job done.

Roger, thank you very much for the infos

Well, hi again, I have a new question. I didn't want to open up a brand new thread, so, though it isn't on exactly the same subject.

I'm wondering about some vague definitions in the Brevity Code, like :

Quote:

TRASHED Informative call that missile has been defeated.

Does that mean ennemy missile defeated by own aircraft, or own/friendly missile defeated by ennemy aircraft ?

I used to assume the former, but more and more now I'm thinking it could well be the latter. So what does it means, really ?

Oh, another question : in a few Red Flag audio recordings, I have heard a WD declare aircraft as "dead man"... I can't find a definition, but I suppose it means an aircraft that has been virtually killed ?

As far as what I remember from flight sims, when a shot was trashed, the other guy evaded--or the missile just didn't track.

As for the Red Flag, I do not believe the participating aircraft have the sensors installed (like Army MILES gear) so any kill decisions would then have to be made by the AWACS WDs.

This may be wrong, before taking my word, wait for verification from the pros.

Hi,

It's not worth to write new topic so I'll ask here.
Can you explain me what's the difference between AN/ARC-164 and AN/URC- 164 radio? As I know URC is mounted in Block 50/52 as well as ARC- 232.
I've found a nice brochure about ARC- 164 (here [Link pending approval]) and nothing about the second one.

Regards

SnakeHandler wrote:

We should. But we have a UHF primary radio that we use to communicate with our flight and anyone else outside our flight such as AWACS, JTACs, etc. We have a VHF aux that we use to communicate within the flight. All comm goes to both ears but we can distinguish between the two by running split volumes. I usually have the aux louder than the primary since I want to hear what my flight has to say over anyone else.

Also, each AWACS has many Weapons Directors in the back. Each flight is usually assigned one for their entire mission. In large force excercises several flights will be assigned one WD.

You are correct in that comm discipline and brevity become extremely important. Sometimes it is inevitable that comm gets saturated but if we use proper comm discipline then things work out fine.

SnakeHandler may be showing his age by designating between UHF and VHF. Just like everything else, the radios have evolved so that we are no longer handcuffed by UHF and VHF radios. Therefore, we now use the distinction of PRI (primary) and AUX (auxiliary) to clarify what radio is being used since there is a wide gamut of the electromagnetic spectrum offered for use.

Well, he's right around 2 1/2 years older now.

Good catch.

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Radio equipment, frequencies, AWACS management