Forum: Off-topic

Sorry, I'm sure this has been done to death, but I have a friend who insists that the F-16 is a piece of crap. He says his uncle, an F-16 pilot, told him this. I'll include some of our AIM conversation to give ya some backstory.

Commey17 (11:01:50 PM): but as a combat fighter, its a piece of ****
Commey17 (11:02:19 PM): and the last time I checked, the thunderbirds planes arent combat planes now are they
Commey17 (11:04:55 PM): just because the best pilots use them doesnt make them good fighters
Commey17 (11:05:11 PM): hell, do we even have any squadrons of them except for training
ZakkWylde470 (11:05:30 PM): if you honestly think the Falcon is a bad fighter pilot, you're ******* dumber than a ******** ******** ******
Commey17 (11:05:54 PM): well, prove to me how im wrong....
Commey17 (11:06:04 PM): show me your proof
ZakkWylde470 (11:07:06 PM): The Fighting Falcon has accumulated 72 air-to-air Kills with no air-to-air losses except for one fratricide loss by the Pakistani Air Force when an AIM-9L switched-lock onto a wingman. Engagements and Kills were recorded throughout more than 30,000 world-wide air-to-air and air-to-ground combat sorties.
ZakkWylde470 (11:07:28 PM): For western fighter on the overall, the 154 engagements resulted in at least 210 confirmed kills with two combat losses and four fratricides. Note that the 72 F-16 kills represents 47% of that number. The fourth fratricide just recently occurred between two Japanese F-15's when one downed his leader with an AIM-9L during a training mission. There were 23 x M-61 gun kills, 2 x 30mm gun kills, 45 x AIM-7 Sparrow kills from F-15, F-18, & F-14's, 3 x AIM-120 AMRAAM kills from the F-16 and 1 x unfortunate fratricide AIM-120 Kill by an F-15C on a Blackhawk Helicopter, and 127 x IR missile kills from all aircraft utilizing either
Commey17 (11:08:55 PM): ok, I still think its a ****** fighter
Commey17 (11:09:04 PM): I tend to believe my uncle over you
ZakkWylde470 (11:09:06 PM): let's see... I can listen to you
ZakkWylde470 (11:09:25 PM): or I can listen to Chuck Horner, the general in charge of US Air Forces in the Gulf War
Commey17 (11:10:06 PM): I still think I believe my uncle over you
ZakkWylde470 (11:10:32 PM): go ahead
ZakkWylde470 (11:10:33 PM): be wrong
ZakkWylde470 (11:10:36 PM): I don't care
ZakkWylde470 (11:10:46 PM): ignore my proof, and listen to your uncle's hearsay
Commey17 (11:11:14 PM): well, seeing as he has first hand experiance, I fail to see how my uncle is talking hearasy
ZakkWylde470 (11:11:26 PM): your uncle has flown Falcons?
Commey17 (11:11:40 PM): ya, actually he has
Commey17 (11:11:48 PM): and he states that there pieces of ****
ZakkWylde470 (11:11:51 PM): so he was in the air force and the army?
Commey17 (11:12:16 PM): its not the same uncle dick
ZakkWylde470 (11:13:13 PM): sorry, I find it a little.... hard to believe that anyone who is even remotely educated on modern aviation, let alone is a ******* Air Force pilot, would find the F-16 incapable as a combat aircraft
Commey17 (11:14:07 PM): ok, I really dont care what you believe, I still tend to believe my uncle over you
ZakkWylde470 (11:14:42 PM): you believe your uncle over the head of Allied Air Forces in the Gulf War as well?
Commey17 (11:14:59 PM): yep, afraid so

Neutral

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First of all, I think it's very cool that you refer to them as Falcons. Some may argue otherwise ("Vipers"), but I like "Falcons" because I see them more similar to the bird than the snake Wink

Anyway, somehow I doubt his uncle's flown them. He may have been forced to once or twice, or maybe he's a Navy pilot that thinks they're nothing more than "water darts", but he sure hasn't flown them for a living.

I'll just wait and watch the fireworks come from real F-16 pilots. I can't wait to hear what they have to say!

But just you know, 'Viper' was going to be its original name, well before Fighting Falcon was selected basically by default. Wink

This ought to get interesting. As everyone here knows, the Viper just kicks alpha - period! I'll wait for the actual pilots to chime in soon and let us know exactly how (as if that information isn't already all over this entire site! Twisted Evil

)

I wouldn't have a aneurysm over this. IMO...sounds like he was just being argumentative to get ya spun up. Chat rooms and forums are stocked with idiots like that. When you confronted him with facts, all he could say was, "yeah....so?". Unless you know this guy and his "uncle" personally, it could be he's just BS-ing you about him. Maybe next time ask him to ask his "uncle" something only a Falcon driver would know. Differences between A's and C's or what unit(s) and dates his "uncle" was in.

Hmmm maybe the guy knows something. I tried that game once and getting everything to work correctly on the game was hard ( the early game, CGA graphics 286 DOS ). The newer Blocks of the game load up better now though. Twisted Evil

Curious what the average age of the participants was in that AOL-IM thread.... Rolling Eyes

yep....

So because I'm only 20 years old and swear like a sailor I'm incapable of having knowlege of military aircraft?

No...but that convo speaks for itself.

And you weren't the loser either, I think you did make your point for the most part. You're learning...

I think that guy's "uncle" didn't fly a falcon, everybody knows it's the one of the best flying machines ever, or else it wouldn't be the world's best seller fighter, offering high performance in the form of low costs, I mean, how much does it cost, 15-25 million???Only?!

20.4 million Wink

And for that Commey17, I as well have to think that his 'uncle' (if he even has one) NEVER has seen a Viper up close or he just made it up.

Ask him next time...if his 'fighter pilot uncle' hates it so much, then ask him to tell you why. Does he believe everything everyone tells him? And ask him what unit he flies for.

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

Sorry, I don't understand the rationale to fight over such an argument? I am sure there is a handful of Vipers drivers who do not think highly of the hardware they're trained to fight in. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions after all.

cheers,

Whoooopeeee!

Well, this icehole has flown a few jets, including the F-16A. And has almost 400 combat hours in two of those jets. Other than that, I don't have too many qualifications........

Viper has a few things that make it attractive:

1) Great record in actual combat. Really good

2) Price per punch is very good

3) Well-established logistics infrastructure

4) Easy to fly. Hell, most pinball wizard kids could fly the thing due to FLCS.

5) Super sortie rate. No one could believe us in early days when a single squadron turned out over 100 sorties in a day in a practice scenario. This was REALLY IMPORTANT when planning for WW3 over eastern Europe, trust me.

6) Uses less gas than Hornet or Eagle or Tomcat. Prolly uses less gas than Fulcum, Flanker, etc.

7) Very good loadout capability. The sucker can deliver a wide variety of ord with great effect. Easy to integrate new weapons, too. I worked as a systems engineer for 14 years after hanging up my g-suit, and the F-16 was one of the easiest to hang something on.

Cool

It just looks mean................

out,

Forum: Off-topic

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