Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

Last edited by Normsta3 on Sep 08, 2003 - 04:44 PM; edited 1 time in total

2 very promising concepts, the AVEN & LOAN nozzles promise to improve the performance of the F-16 in different ways. For those of you who don't know what they are, here are some links to familiarize yourself with them.

AVEN - http://www.f-16.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=56

LOAN - http://www.f-16.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=57&page=1

Now, it's it me, or does the LOAN nozzle appear to be an outgrowth / improvement over the AVEN nozzle? What I mean is, both engines use the divergent flaps, just for different purposes I guess. But does that mean those nozzles are the same pretty much (save that the LOAN nozzle has that cooling system), or are they far more different than one would be led to believe? I don't know; I just thought that they were pretty much the same nozzle after reading those articles. Can anyone help me on the differences, if any, between them? Oh, and how come we don't see those nozzles on any operational F-16s? The AVEN nozzle was cancelled supposedly, but apparently the latest Block F-16s (50 and up) may be equipped with it if the user - countries see fit. As for the LOAN, the article said that it was in the planning stages. Well dang, it's 2003, how long does it seriously take to plan a test flight?! Once again, help would be appreciated, thanx, Very Happy

P.S. - I don't know why the links don't work. Crying or Very sad

Stefaan, Lieven, Bjorn, so help please. Oh, and for everyone else, the information can be found on this site. Just go to the Versions Section of this website and go down the list. You should see them somewhere near the bottom.

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Well I could not get either of those links to work but here is what I know:

AVEN - Asymmetric Vectored Engine Nozzle was installed on a single F110-GE-100 engine and flown on the VISTA aircraft (86-0048) as part of the VISTA/MATV vectored thrust test program.

LOAN - Low Obversable Axisymmetric Nozzle was installed on a single F100-PW-200 engine and only run in a series of ground tests - to my knowledge it never "flew". LOAN was an effort to significantly reduce RCS and IR signature emissions from the engine. While the original intent was to develop technologies for the upcoming JSF program, the technology could be used to retrofit F-16s worldwide. The nozzle improves stealth through a combination of technologies, including geometrical shaping, cooling systems and special internal and external coatings. A side benefit is reduced maintenance costs as the advanced cooling system is expected to more than double the life of the divergent flaps in the nozzle.

Hope that helps,

GregD

OK I found those articles, guess I didn't really add much to what they said. I think the real answer to your question is that GD/Lockheed would not do anything that would endanger the future of the JSF program by making the F-16 exceed JSF performance predictions.

GregD

But how are they different? Maybe I just missed it in your last post, because I've read the articles, I know what each one does, but how are they different? Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if they could adapt the LOAN nozzle to use thrust - vectoring technology. It has the divergent flaps needed, doesn't it? Or, could they incorporate some of the LOAN technology into the AVEN nozzle. Hmm, these are some interesting concepts. Wink

AVEN was pure thrust vectoring - LOAN was AVEN + stealth.

Compare the features of LOAN to the JSF engine nozzle, I think you will see the similarities. I don't think JSF has thrust vectoring other than for VTOL requirements but the LO aspects look similar to me.

This would not be the only time the F-16 has been used to test JSF concepts - the diverterless inlet was tested on the F-16 as were the electric actuators.

Does that mean that I was right in that the LOAN nozzle is simply the next step up from the AVEN nozzle? I wonder why they haven't ordered some of those nozzles for the latest F-16s. Anyone have an idea on how much they cost?

Normsta3,

Your second link does work. Your first doens't because you forgot something.

The correct links for:

AVEN

http://www.f-16.net/modules.php?op=modl ... =56&page=1

LOAN

http://www.f-16.net/modules.php?op=modl ... =57&page=1

Greets,

Thanx Bjorn. What I did was just go to the page, right - click & go to its properties, copy the URL, highlight it, and then click URL up top on the Post - A - Reply page. I guess that there's a easier way, huh? Sorry 'bout that. Smile

Oh, and Bjorn, do you have any more information to add about the differences between the AVEN & LOAN nozzles?

Joined: Feb 01, 2007 - 02:38 AM Posts: 0 Status: Offline

Agreed the LOAN was thrust vectoring with "stealth" qualities. Funding for both died with F-22/JSF cost increases. The LOAN almost made flight test, but when the funding ran out, so did the tests.

There was some fall-out from the LOAN, another nozzle call it a LON was developed by PW for use on the F100 engines. It reduced IR and Radar signatures very well, and it extended the overhaul interval of the Augmentor Nozzle. The increased life was gained by the cool air ejected into and through the nozzle to cool it. The cooler parts lasted twice as long as the parts in the origional nozzle.

I believe it too died at the hands of saving $$ for new aircraft.

Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

Difference Between The AVEN & LOAN nozzles?