Forum: F-35 Lightning II

The Dutch have concluded a study that confirms that the F-35 is superior in cost and capability to the Gripen NG and superior to the F-16 Advanced.

Quote:

The results of the comparison fulfils a requirement imposed by the Dutch Parliament and clears the MOD to buy the first two F-35s in April 2009 in order to participate with the US and the UK in the initial operational test and evaluation phase.

"The F-35 is the best multi-role combat aircraft and by around 2015 will certainly be able to carry out all six main missions successfully," de Vries said.

Hmmm, first Norway and now the Dutch. I wonder what ELP knows that they don't???

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ivals.html

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Thumper3181 wrote:

The Dutch have concluded a study that confirms that the F-35 is superior in cost and capability to the Gripen NG and superior to the F-16 Advanced.

Quote:

The results of the comparison fulfils a requirement imposed by the Dutch Parliament and clears the MOD to buy the first two F-35s in April 2009 in order to participate with the US and the UK in the initial operational test and evaluation phase.

"The F-35 is the best multi-role combat aircraft and by around 2015 will certainly be able to carry out all six main missions successfully," de Vries said.

Hmmm, first Norway and now the Dutch. I wonder what ELP knows that they don't???

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ivals.html

That less than 2% of the flight testing is done. Razz

The F-35 will look very nice with Dutch roundels Smile

Just as a question (sorry if posted before somewhere else), how long will it take for the F-16's to be phased out, i.e. when are the Dutch supposed to have the full compliment of F-35's?

I hope the norwegians and the dutch can have their machines at the same time. Some combined training will be good.

EPAF F-35 here we go!

Sorry guys, but you make a small mistake.
Ministry of Defence says yes to F35, but the politicians make the final decision.
In April 2009 we will decide if we order 2 testplanes and in 2010 the final decision will be made if we will order more F35's.
So untill next year nothing is decided

europatches wrote:

Sorry guys, but you make a small mistake.
Ministry of Defence says yes to F35, but the politicians make the final decision.
In April 2009 we will decide if we order 2 testplanes and in 2010 the final decision will be made if we will order more F35's.
So untill next year nothing is decided

I think everybody understood that...............Yet, it was a major endorsement that will have a great impact on the final dicision. Very Happy

and besides, there is not much else to then order really...but then politicians...you just never know Wink

Quite correct - the decision to order the next test and evaluation aircraft is to be taken in 2009. The production contract won't be negotiated until much later. And if LockMart explains that because of program adjustments and labor costs and fluctuations in the zloty-to-dirham exchange rage, the price is now $150 million flyaway per ship, the Nogs and Clogs can walk away and order...

Dang. what happened to all those other guys who were offering us fighters in 2008?

[quote="LowObservable"]Quite correct - the decision to order the next test and evaluation aircraft is to be taken in 2009. The production contract won't be negotiated until much later. And if LockMart explains that because of program adjustments and labor costs and fluctuations in the zloty-to-dirham exchange rage, the price is now $150 million flyaway per ship, the Nogs and Clogs can walk away and order...

Oh, I love it when people throw out numbers like 150 Million for the F-35. The current F-22 that will be made (187-243) at a faction of the number of the F-35 doesn't cost nearly as much. Further, besides being built in vast numbers. The Lightning was design with economics in mind................In short no way is the F-35 going to cost anywhere near the Raptor. Let alone more. Which, is laughable to even suggest! Wink

Corsair1963 wrote:

europatches wrote:

Sorry guys, but you make a small mistake.
Ministry of Defence says yes to F35, but the politicians make the final decision.
In April 2009 we will decide if we order 2 testplanes and in 2010 the final decision will be made if we will order more F35's.
So untill next year nothing is decided

I think everybody understood that...............Yet, it was a major endorsement that will have a great impact on the final dicision. Very Happy

Actually no, although in most respects I am thankful for the Dutch way of doing things. It does have one downside compared to the Americans: the opinion of the Military matters absolutely nothing to the parliament.

When making decisions on national security. Politics weighs so many times more then national security itself.

Driver wrote:

Corsair1963 wrote:

europatches wrote:

Sorry guys, but you make a small mistake.
Ministry of Defence says yes to F35, but the politicians make the final decision.
In April 2009 we will decide if we order 2 testplanes and in 2010 the final decision will be made if we will order more F35's.
So untill next year nothing is decided

I think everybody understood that...............Yet, it was a major endorsement that will have a great impact on the final dicision. Very Happy

Actually no, although in most respects I am thankful for the Dutch way of doing things. It does have one downside compared to the Americans: the opinion of the Military matters absolutely nothing to the parliament.

When making decisions on national security. Politics weighs so many times more then national security itself.

Well, are you saying you don't believe that the Dutch will receive the F-35......... Wink

Corsair1963 wrote:

Driver wrote:

Corsair1963 wrote:

europatches wrote:

Sorry guys, but you make a small mistake.
Ministry of Defence says yes to F35, but the politicians make the final decision.
In April 2009 we will decide if we order 2 testplanes and in 2010 the final decision will be made if we will order more F35's.
So untill next year nothing is decided

I think everybody understood that...............Yet, it was a major endorsement that will have a great impact on the final dicision. Very Happy

Actually no, although in most respects I am thankful for the Dutch way of doing things. It does have one downside compared to the Americans: the opinion of the Military matters absolutely nothing to the parliament.

When making decisions on national security. Politics weighs so many times more then national security itself.

Well, are you saying you don't believe that the Dutch will receive the F-35......... Wink

I hope Politicians will listen to the Air Force and just go for the F-35 but even with so much money funneled into the project no one can honestly say that they are certain about what choice will be made.

When you think that the Dutch political "world" thinks and operates the same way as the American when it comes to matters of defense then you are making a crucial mistake. Sadly the factor that decides whether it will be the Gripen or the F-35 will be 90% based on what the political climate of that specific moment is and 10% on what the Military wants.

Some parties may chose the Gripen for the sole purpose of punishing another party for frustrating progress in another entirely different field of lawmaking. Others may chose the Gripen because of something the USA does in 2010.

When it comes to the Dutch political "world" and matters of national defense: Logic needs to be thrown out of the window to make an accurate prediction about the decision.

SO to answer your question: I hope they will chose the F-35, but I don't know whether they actually will.

I have no doubt that the Dutch will select the F-35 in the end.............Besides being the most capable. They have a lot of money tied up in the project.

elp wrote:

That less than 2% of the flight testing is done. Razz

And most of the basic flying qualities of the aircraft, including supersonic flight, has been conducted within that 2%.

Nothing has been a surprise yet. It has met and exceeded it's predicted performance models very well from all reports. Razz

Conan wrote:

elp wrote:

That less than 2% of the flight testing is done. Razz

And most of the basic flying qualities of the aircraft, including supersonic flight, has been conducted within that 2%.

Nothing has been a surprise yet. It has met and exceeded it's predicted performance models very well from all reports. Razz

You are correct, they weren't surprised at all when they had an inflight emergency and had to land the aircraft at ludicrous speed because some of the flight controls misbehaved. There are going to be adverse flight test events in something this complex. That is normal. Stating that there were no surprises is not an accurate statement.

Lets let the flight test work pan out before spending billions on hope.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Netherlands Ministry of Defense Chooses F-35