Forum: Air Power

Hi guys, I've got a question which suddenly came up to my mind as i was reading up on the specs of the F-15 and F-16. F-15Cs generally known as a air superiority fighter, have better radar and longer ranges and it also performs well in close combat dogfights. Therefore I'm curious and is anyone able to explain why some airforces in the world like US and Israeli Airforce are using both of them and not only the F-15s. What role would the F-16s play in the presence of F-15s as the F-15 pretty much covered its role in air to air and F-15 Es are also able to perform Air to Ground Roles better if i'm not wrong with its greater payload and range.

And also given that you are an F-16 pilot and faces an F-15 as your enemy in BVR head to head. What can you do to get into WVR without getting killed and try to engage in a dogfight?

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F-15s are more expensive to buy and operate than F-16s.

so does that mean that an f-16's capability totally loses to the F-15 and given a BVR encounter, an F-16 will surely lose?

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

It’s the large expensive air superiority super fighter; versus the cheaper simpler fighter.

I think they both have their niche. I think it depends on the scenario as to which is the better fighter. I think it’s best to use the best qualified aircraft for each scenario. Also one of the advantages to having two programs that if one program ends up having a major failure; the other program can step up and fill the shoes as best as possible.

I think it’s much like the F-22 and JSF.

To compare them to each other is much like comparing apples and oranges.

walama wrote:

so does that mean that an f-16's capability totally loses to the F-15 and given a BVR encounter, an F-16 will surely lose?

No; I'd suspect that the F-15 wmight win more often but it certainly wouldn't be a one-sided blowout, especially considering that both of them are armed with the same missile. It would most likely come down to the pilots in that case.

Remember, when the F-15 and F-16 were first developed, there was no AIM-120. The F-16 was strictly BVR only, and the F-15 was not used for ground attack (F-15E didn't enter service until the late 80s). The F-16 became BVR-capable with the AIM-120, but it also took on much "fancier" A/G weapons, and replaced older aircraft like the F-4G.

As others have stated, they both have their uses.

The basic Eagle has no (or very limited) A-G capability. I don't recall if Israel bought Strike eagles, but I don't think they did.

To pile on to an earlier comment, the Viper is half the cost of an Eagle to buy and operate, so you can buy them at a 2-for-1 rate in comparison.

Bottom line is this, They are both still effective at what they were designed to do against an enemy. Both in relationship to cost and as far as exacting a toll on the enemy and still return their crew home safely

If you were air defense, would you rather try to stop 50 F-15s or 100 F-16s?

walama wrote:

And also given that you are an F-16 pilot and faces an F-15 as your enemy in BVR head to head. What can you do to get into WVR without getting killed and try to engage in a dogfight?

Pray that his stuff doesn't work.

Quote:

walama wrote:
And also given that you are an F-16 pilot and faces an F-15 as your enemy in BVR head to head. What can you do to get into WVR without getting killed and try to engage in a dogfight?

Well, lots of stuff. Don't get me wrong... The F-15 has "skills" that the viper doesn't. But within WVR F-16 v F-15 is a coin flip....or actually based upon pilot performance. Infact the old studies conducted back in WWI hold true today.

Over 80% of the pilots shot down in close combat did not see their attacker. Kind of goes to the new mantra.... (VLO fighters) Can't fight or react to what you can't see.

Salute!

F16guy has put a lot of it in simple terms.

If you're entering the fight from a thousand miles away, you can see the furball on your radar real easy.

If you're entering the fight from 15 miles away the radar picture is there, but who is who?

From personal experience, I can tell you that the first dots you see are the Tomcats and Eagles ( aka Battlestar Galactica, or Rodan). You are a tiny dot they cannot see real easily, and they are not spending all their time with their heads in the scope.

30 seconds later you have a good visual acq and a good tone on your Lima, then poof!

As f16guy has said, the Eagle had some great nose-pointing ability that we didn't have. If he didn't get off the shot he was outta airspeed and descending. So we learned not to get into a vertical scissors, as at the top he could move the nose and take the Lima shot when you rolled off due to the limiter.

I went from 10k to 30k one day at Eglin with another old fart like me. We both crossed with about equal energy and scissored all the way up. I sacrificed some "e" to not spit out in front, just stayed canopy to canopy. Then we scissored all the way back to the "floor", saluted each other and came home. A good fight by two 40-year old has beens.

The new low-oh stuff is great. But in a furball it's the big birds that capture your attention and suck up the IR missiles, or cannons.

later,

Gums sends.....

Merry Christmas to all!

Forum: Air Power

why are they still using both?