Forum: Technology

Looks like a ramjaet may still be in the works for JDRADM.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/117150/aerojet-demos-next_gen-solid-ramjet-fuel.html

Quote:

Aerojet Successfully Demonstrates Next Generation Solid Ramjet Fuel

(Source: Aerojet; issued August 10, 2010)

SACRAMENTO, Calif. --- Aerojet, a GenCorp company, announced today that it has successfully tested an advanced solid ramjet fuel in an engine ground test. The fuel is being developed to provide long-range, high-speed capability for the U.S. military and potentially for the future USAF/Navy Joint Dual Role Air Dominance Missile (JDRADM).

Ramjet engines have historically used liquid fuel which mixes with atmospheric air in order to provide thrust at high speed. However, for tactical missiles, the military services have expressed interest in a storable solid fuel. In order to meet this need, Aerojet developed the world's first throttleable solid-fueled ramjet for the U.S. Navy GQM-163A Coyote missile target starting in the year 2000. Since that time, Aerojet has been developing a family of advanced formulations called AerGen fuels with properties suitable for a tactical missile ramjet engine. The fuel burns very efficiently, resulting in more delivered energy and reduced visible exhaust.

The ground testing was conducted at Aerojet's Airbreathing Test Facility located in Orange County, Va. A full-scale engine was tested at conditions simulating high-altitude, high-speed flight. "Our airbreathing propulsion business represents cutting-edge technology aimed at future military requirements," said Aerojet Vice President and Deputy to the President, Dick Bregard. "Aerojet is proud to demonstrate our commitment to advancing our country's military capability through this innovative ramjet fuel research."

Aerojet is a world-recognized aerospace and defense leader principally serving the missile and space propulsion, defense and armaments markets. GenCorp is a leading technology-based manufacturer of aerospace and defense products and systems with a real estate segment that includes activities related to the entitlement, sale, and leasing of the company's excess real estate assets.

F-16.net Sponsor

Very interesting. In the short term I don't see why we don't build an "AIM-120E" with a dual-pulse motor and ramjet (would that work?)

Indeed, lampshade. Proposed next gen missiles and their propellants will come and go in respective longer-term development programs, but there is and should be a 'short-term' contingency plan as well. In that 'short-term' phase though, maybe concurrently look at something such as an existing ESSM, integrated for Air Intercept. Perhaps variants could include an enhanced 9x seeker version and maybe one with the latest AMRAAM active seeker to best utilize off the shelf tech. It could probably enable somewhere in the 125km NEZ performance thanks in part to likely superior velocity compared to AMRAAM, as well as carrying twice the warhead.

There already is a "dual-pulse" AMRAAM motor in the works. ATK got the contract to start dev last year.

Viperalltheway wrote:

Quote:

5. The booster is 4.5 ft long. Thereby a 2.5 booster can be used to make a JDRADM-LITE that is the same length as an AIM-9X. Same missile, different boosters... massive cost efficiency.

I had a similar idea a few months ago. The problem I think is that you waste about 1' just because you add a booster from the drawings I've seen. In other words, your 2.5' booster would have only 1.5' of propellant. Not sure it's worth it..

I had another idea but I don't know if it's possible... make a booster that envelops the main missile itself. The advantages are:
- more propellant. I think it could carry about 50% more propellant.
- less loss of space vs the tandem configuration.
- only one exhaust system. ( the booster is somehow connected to the main missile exhaust )
- the thrust vectoring can be used while using the booster.
- different sizes of boosters with as much commonality as possible.

The booster would be composed of 2 components that would be ejected on each side when they're empty.

The wings/fins deploy once the booster has been ejected.

I've never seen a missile like that so I'm not sure it's possible.

Apart from this I also think it would be a great idea to have double ejector for the side bays that would be compatible with SDBs. Instead of 2 AIM-9Ms now in the 2 side bays the F-22 could have 2 JDRARMs-LITE on one side and 2 SDBs on the other.

Plus that would free the AMRAAM space inside the main bays for 2 more SDBs per main bay. Total 14 SDBs + 2 JDRARM-LITE.

You see, the way solid rocket motors are produce is in a series of grains with a cavity in the center for combustion to occur. Propellant burns faster, more evenly, and more explosively.

Here's some resources if you're curious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-fuel ... n_geometry

If you wrap the propellant around the missile body you thereby forgo any advantages that are gained from "graining" a rocket motor. Attached is a quick drawing of something I just thought of that may be relevant to you, however I have no idea if it is practical. I assume it probably isn't. Experimentation will be required I think.

I also imagine the heat within the body of the rocket would be astronomical.

(please pardon my lack of artistic ability)
[/img]

SpudmanWP wrote:

Looks like a ramjaet may still be in the works for JDRADM.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/117150/aerojet-demos-next_gen-solid-ramjet-fuel.html

Quote:

Aerojet Successfully Demonstrates Next Generation Solid Ramjet Fuel

(Source: Aerojet; issued August 10, 2010)

SACRAMENTO, Calif. --- Aerojet, a GenCorp company, announced today that it has successfully tested an advanced solid ramjet fuel in an engine ground test. The fuel is being developed to provide long-range, high-speed capability for the U.S. military and potentially for the future USAF/Navy Joint Dual Role Air Dominance Missile (JDRADM).

Ramjet engines have historically used liquid fuel which mixes with atmospheric air in order to provide thrust at high speed. However, for tactical missiles, the military services have expressed interest in a storable solid fuel. In order to meet this need, Aerojet developed the world's first throttleable solid-fueled ramjet for the U.S. Navy GQM-163A Coyote missile target starting in the year 2000. Since that time, Aerojet has been developing a family of advanced formulations called AerGen fuels with properties suitable for a tactical missile ramjet engine. The fuel burns very efficiently, resulting in more delivered energy and reduced visible exhaust.

The ground testing was conducted at Aerojet's Airbreathing Test Facility located in Orange County, Va. A full-scale engine was tested at conditions simulating high-altitude, high-speed flight. "Our airbreathing propulsion business represents cutting-edge technology aimed at future military requirements," said Aerojet Vice President and Deputy to the President, Dick Bregard. "Aerojet is proud to demonstrate our commitment to advancing our country's military capability through this innovative ramjet fuel research."

Aerojet is a world-recognized aerospace and defense leader principally serving the missile and space propulsion, defense and armaments markets. GenCorp is a leading technology-based manufacturer of aerospace and defense products and systems with a real estate segment that includes activities related to the entitlement, sale, and leasing of the company's excess real estate assets.

My father retired early from that facility a couple of years back. I bet he would have loved to work on that, but he just couldn't take the way they made him babysit union plant operators instead of doing the chemistry he signed up for.

SpudmanWP wrote:

I came across the JDRADM Dev Timeline on page 4 of this MAy 2009 budget doc

Just to review:

MR ROKM is the warhead tech
SITES is the seeker
DRADM-T is propulsion and airframe tech

I think they forgot to put the "cancelled - 2013" bar into the graph...

Cancelled?

SO an AAM that can also hit SAM radars? I've often wondered why this hadn't been made already.

mcraptor wrote:

SO an AAM that can also hit SAM radars? I've often wondered why this hadn't been made already.

Processing power.

count_to_10 wrote:

Cancelled?

More like...not funded in 2013. But you know Congress...maybe the money will get snuck back in...

Some aspects have had their funding put on hold while others, like the T3 program, are still being funded.

SpudmanWP wrote:

Some aspects have had their funding put on hold while others, like the T3 program, are still being funded.

DARPA project -- which is its own pool of money. I doubt Monk is going to let it die.

It's still a USAF R&D program that falls under JDRADM

http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y201 ... B_2013.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y201 ... B_2013.pdf

Forum: Technology

Perfect JDRADM Missile