Forum: Job Openings

Our positions we have listed under another topic are with a different company.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-11697.html

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I worked for the RSAF for 1 year. You have to put up with alot a crap. But if you need the money. Go for it.

For me, If they dont pay 6 figures. Its not worth going.

If you want to go over there. Find a Company doing work for the US Military.

What companies are doing work for the military?

There are two approaches to F-15 work in KSA. One is under the Foreign Military Sales or FMS contracts and the other is a commercial contract with no US government involvement other than ITAR over sight (International Treaty on Arms Reduction supervised by the State Department via a Technical Assistance Agreement or TAA) .

Right now the F-15 PDM is an FMS contract run by a Saudi company. The F-15 TSP program is run by AEC and is a Saudi commercial contract. In my opinion, there isn't a lot of difference between the FMS and the commercial contracts regarding pay, benefits or other goodies. Both companies holding the contracts are Saudi companies and pay according to what they think they can get away with. The early days of the Peace Sun and Peace Hawk programs were all FMS and were all bid by US companies which paid big bucks to attract people willing to put up with what was the norm here. I knew guys who said they got $10-15 thousand dollar contract completion bonuses plus a whole lot more. Our max bonus, if we stick it out for 3 years is $2500. The era of big pay and big bonuses are long gone.

So to answer your question, to my knowledge there are no US companies doing work on the F-15 involving the US military. There may be some companies working on C-130, AWACS (probably Boeing) or other upgrades or mods like the radars for the Peace Shield network, but nothing major and nothing involving the F-15. If anybody knows anything different please feel free to correct me.

The (ITAR) International Traffic in Arms Regulations and (EAR) export Administration Regulations that prohibit companies from exporting defense-related and certain commercial dual-use products and technology to foreign countries or releasing controlled technology to foreign persons, whether inside or outside of the United States borders without a license or other legal authorization.

Seems like a lot of hearsay and conjecture going on in this thread, I've been lurking for quite awhile.

I've been seriously considering moving ahead and trying to get an offer from these people.

I was laid off in Nov from my position and having an extremely difficult time getting a position in my field (avionics) in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.

We don't want to MOVE from the D/FW area, so instead of uprooting my entire family, doing a 1 year thing in KSA doesn't seem un-doable.

I would like some REAL infomration from people that LOVE it (and the reaons why) and the reasons they HATE it (and the reasons why).

For the new guys.

If your looking for work. Try using Google.

99.9 percent of all of your questions will be answered there.

Just type if Aviation Employment Middle East

For the guy who wanted to talk to someone who loves Saudi Arabia. Good luck on that search. The only reason to go there is for the money.

And if you cant leave the Dallas area. You might want to look into another type of job. Computers. Car repair. Something more stable than aviation. And just about everthing else is.

If you need money. Go. If you want to be treated with some respect. Go work at Wal Mart.

I have to agree with Makowes. When you first arrive here they will treat you nice . Then after a month or two they will try to convert you.

Then they will blame ANYTHING that goes wrong on YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!
You will be treated no better than a TCN (Third Country National).

So if you dont mind being the fall guy come on over otherwise I would try elsewhere !!!!!!!!!!!!

But if you are lucky enough to get an office job like ED at Plans and scheduling I would recommend you get a job there.
or
They only do a 6 hour day..................While the rest of us Poor saps as Ed would say do a 8 or 9 hour day depending if we take a lunch break or not.

Think hard and carefully if you are ready to put up with the Bullshit. You might think the Bullshit really sucked in the USAF but that aint nothing

with what you have to put up with these people.

Ed will propably say everything is fine and grand here but that is not the case. Things are different if you work at a computer and schedule jobs compaired to the rest of us.

As a final warning be prepared, do your homework read some books about working with the people from the Middle East.

Its a differnt world here once you get here. It sure as hell aint the southside of Chicago.

Last edited by edbres on Jan 23, 2009 - 08:15 AM; edited 1 time in total

There you go telling lies again. Look back through my posts. I have NEVER referred to flt line people as "poor saps" nor ANY other negative remark. The negative remarks were directed to you, someone else and pokey. All 3 of you only post the negative crap. Take a look at [url]http://www.f-15sa.com [/url]closely. I have called out the company on pay issues and warned the newbies on what to expect. I've referenced the difference on the quality of the compound vs. Dorat Jadawel. Lack of good communications between inbounds and the company and how others besides myself have stepped in when the company did not. I put the pictures in, I put the information in and opened the forum up to questions and comments and so far the response has been positive and we are approaching 1000 hits from Jan 1st. Also your reference to me getting money from Reliance is totally untrue. I have not contacted nor been contacted by Reliance in any form of communication. I posted their openings as taken from another website and directed anyone who contacted me about such to contact Reliance directly.
After 11 years in Kingdom I have many friends here both westerners and Arabs. MOST of the Arabs will treat you as you treat them. It is tough sometimes to deal with the Arabs because of the huge cultural differences but I have found that a little "bending" on both sides makes for a much better relationship. The same goes for dealing with the company. We get paid on the 27th of each month so that the money is in the US at the end of the month. Read the contract? It does not say that they pay on the 27th. Your local money is also in there on or about the 27th. Now people bitch because they were there in the morning of the 27th and couldn’t get it. Where does it end? Did anyone say thanks to the company because your money was in the bank the day BEFORE Christmas? NOT! If I was the company I would pay you the way I got paid for the first 5 years of my contract. All of my money was paid into the Saudi French Bank on the last day of the month. PERIOD! Contract fulfilled! Then I had to stand in line for sometimes hours to send a wire back to the states and it was at my expense! Just be glad they don’t pay you your worth! They would have to send you a bill every month not a check!
So again, go back to the bread lines in South Chicago and try to get a job or quit bitching about this job. Quit comparing this to the US. If it was paradise they wouldn’t pay so well. You don’t think they pay well? Ck out the jobs offered in those F-16 jobs in the states. Same hourly wage as you get here right? Only difference is you have to pay taxes (Fed and State), FICA, and all of the other deductions like Medicare, unemployment and health insurance (35-40%) Then you get to pay rent and utilities, $2+ a gallon gas, high insurance on the car. Need I say more? Oh! How much vacation will you get? Compare that to 30 days + 11 for Eid and National day.
So, you people on the fence back in the US think it over carefully. All things come at a price! You will lose some freedoms and endure some hardships here. Yes the women have to wear abayas and there are some other restrictions and challenges. Yes it is a long plane ride back to the US on vacation (paid for by the company!) or you can take the money and go to Egypt, Turkey, Thailand, Africa or anywhere in the world! 2 Years ago my wife and I went to Thailand for 2 weeks, went on an elephant Safari, stayed in 4 star hotels and did all of the airfares, lodging etc. on the money we got paid for our IL. Want a chance to see the world? Visit [url]http://www.f-15sa.com [/url]to see the pictures of the area, read about life on the compound and shopping. There are 10-11 shopping bus trips to various locations PER DAY!! Plus 2 of the local food stores have their own busses to take you to their store and return you to the villa and put your groceries in your villa! Most tip SR10 to the driver except Pokey. He thinks they are “just doing their job”. But that’s another story!
And yes the company has a lot of room to improve and improvement has been slow, very slow, but there is improvement.
FYI darkside I spent half of my air force career working the flightline from the hot deserts of Texas, the soggy steam of Viet Nam and the 20-40 below zero of Plattsburgh. So "been there, done that".[url][/url]

Look here Brotha,

I grew up in the projects from the southside of Chicago......... And talking about the compound the villa's are looking like back home on the projects the rebar coming out and again water lines breaking again and again. I was in Desert Storm and was in the frigid cold of Greenland remote north of Thule. So if thats not cold or hot for our a$$.
Ed for your info This Brotha has worked 95% thats NINETY-FIVE PERCENT FOR YOU! out on the flightline.

WHY dont you take some current pics of the current compound conditions. My hood looks better than this.

I a little too old to be pimping.

Oh!!! What's going on? Is pokey and darkside one in the same? Both from the south side of Chicago? Pokey, I only grouped you in there because one of your major gripes was tipping the bus driver a couple of riyals! The poor bastards work for a couple of hundred dollars a month and send it all home to support their families. They live on the tips and side jobs they can find. Many times they hadn't been paid for 6 months. And for many their vacations to see their families were 2 years apart.

Look at the Job Sites page and read what I put in there about the compound. Also remember, this site is only about 3 weeks old! Good god man I can't do it all alone and instantly. I built the site, I paid for the site and update and build it as I go. So far I have 2 people volunteer to be forum moderators to "keep it clean" and I thank them publicly for their support. It allows me more time to concentrate on the site content (both good and bad). The forum is only restricted to no profanity and no general accusations or derogatory statements about employee's. If you have an issue then by all means bring it up. By "you" I mean it happened to you, not what you heard happened to someone else. Also remember that there are no restrictions on saying something good either! It ain't all bad here. Pokey why don't you go out and take some pictures of the compound and email them to me or leave a cd in my mailbox. A little effort on your part might help make it a better place for everyone. AND, I know what you are saying but you don't work 95% for me. It's a 50-50 deal because you know the big picture more than you let on. Let’s not focus on negativity, let’s focus on making it better, better in all areas. We need to work on the little things and then the big problems kind of melt away. There are some really good people out there, both contractor and RSAF. Some have just kind of lost their way a little. They need to re-focus on the positive. Do you really want to be back in the "hood"? I have a handful of resume's right now from people who are getting hungry and the bills are piling up. Those F-16 jobs have resume's coming in at a healthy rate. So guess what, more resumes than positions the pay goes down. Suddenly Saudi Arabia looks a lot better than poverty! Notice all of the new faces here? I believe there are only 2 open slots here at Dhahran with AEC. The Reliance deal may or may not be a good deal. Did you catch the "American owned" entry? So the little more they pay might be ate up by FICA? If they only have a dozen employee's here what kind of support will you get? Passports, Iquamas, multiple visas, storage etc. Will they deposit some riyals in a local bank of will you have to use your bank card and pay all the fees? Travel money or will they buy tickets? I'm just saying to check it out real good before you leap! Or can you even leap? They can't talk to you until your 90 days is in. Then for how long do you have to leave the country? Do you think MODA will lets them rape the TSP? Remember the Al-Salam deal at the new contract. Those that tried to "Side Step" over to PDM damn near lost their jobs! Demob and start over, sell your car etc. I went through the same thing. I had a firm offer with another company. NO PROBLEM! We'll pay for you to spend a few weeks in Bahrain and store you stuff. Then all of a sudden MODA stepped in and the answer was NOT! Just check it out real well OK?

So let’s all quit being part of the problem and be part of the solution. Work with me on this website, it will make a difference, it already has. Let’s leave the F-16 site alone and stop the embarrassment. I will not make another post here. I am done with this name calling crap. If you guys want to stay over here and do the dirty laundry then have a ball. If you want to help we’ll be at the f-15sa.com site. Check your negativity at the door!

Ed
ed@bresney.com
webmaster@f-15sa.com
villa 2020
0500299014

I would not go back to the Desert unless it was working with US Military guys. I dont blame the Saudis Air Force guys. Their bosses have hired someone do do their work for them. If someone did that for me. I would sit around all day drinking tea all day too.

My problem was the work still needed to be done. I wasnt allowed to do it when the Saudis were there. Because it would make them look bad. So after they went home I got to stay late and fix the stuff that was broke at 8am. But was not allowed to work on.

Newbie Joined: Feb 05, 2009 - 09:50 AM Posts: 10

To the moderators: this thread has degraded to a level far below this website's normal quality standards. The six pages of subjective opinions, gripes & complaints are of little to no general interest and should be expressed in another more suitable forum (F-15 website, company/corporate website, private e-mails, etc.).

My apologies for the poor quality in this thread. Jammer2 is absolutely right. As edbres and Akruse spotted correctly, there was one person registering under different nicknames (darkside, pokey,...), using different IP-addresses. We have banned the accounts earlier this week and removed most posts (also in other threads) but we forgot to post a message here.

When in doubt, never hesitate to click on the 'report this post' link you see everywhere. Moderators are just on click away and it really helps to have a few sets of extra eyeballs out here.

Watch out for newbies asking provoking questions and then talking trash... I will probably lock this thread in a day or two and in the meanwhile I will keep a close eye on it.

Last edited by gunslingera10 on Feb 06, 2009 - 08:36 AM; edited 1 time in total

Webmaster

This thread is fine as is minus any epthias, the true concern in not the content but that there is so much chater on this thread which is not centered on an F-16 issue. The fact that there are more hits now or may ever be on this site styfils a mind that has become self centered. Rest easy, there may never come a day when you to will be blocked for being of another group, driver, or type of platform, that said enjoy all the popularity F-16net garnished from a sister flight, and "Don't cry for me Argentina" does not fit here, it is just entertainment.

The little red book states that free thought is not good, community control is the upmost single factor to prevent any coultural shift.

On the other hand just bann all the folks or burn the books, you have that power right, or was that in Germany, what was that guys name.

Don't loose the free flow of info all blogs are based on.

PS: Spell ck me. Shocked

Forum: Job Openings

Warning about F-15 jobs, AEC, Saudi Arabia