Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

So far most of the topics on Vipers versus other plain contains some facts, but mostly opinions and assumptions.

What we need is a matrix where the most essential facts that wins a dog fight are listed. This obviously excludes the pilot, as he/she may be one of the biggest variables in the first place.

I'm not an expert in any way on this topic, hence I like to see facts to be able to make my own judgements. Does anyone know of, or have the ability/inclination/time to build such a matrix (spreadsheet/table)? It would be a grat reference tool for many topics here.

F-16.net Sponsor

Quote:

Does anyone know of, or have the ability/inclination/time to build such a matrix (spreadsheet/table)? It would be a grat reference tool for many topics here.

That sort of product has the potential to be a great intel tool as well and might get flaged for being such and get removed. Becarefull when you make it.

Good point. Chances are someones done one already. If you asked around, you'd probably be able to dig one up. Hell there are enough bored people out there with a big enough knowledge base to do so. lol.

F/A-22, F/B-22, F-35A, F-35B, F-35C, F-15E+, F-16E, F/A-18 E/F, EF-2000, Rafale B/C/M, and Su-35

A. Empty weight:

FA-22: 19,489 kg (IDR)
FB-22: 22,000 kg (IDR)
F-35A: 12,250 kg (http://www.defence.gov.au/jsf/factsheet_jsf.asp)
F-35B: 13,608 kg
F-35C: 13,888 kg
F-15E: 16,555 kg (with CFT and F-100-PW-229)
F-15E+: 16,790 kg(with CFT and F-110-GE-132)
F-16E: 9,980 kg
F-18E: 13,860 kg
EF-2K: 11,150 kg
Rafale B: 9,670 kg
Rafale C: 9,400 kg
Rafale M: 9,900 kg
Su-35: 18,400 kg

B. Internal Fuel:

FA-22: 8,323 kg
FB-22: 16,000 kg
F-35A: 8,165 kg+
F-35B: 6,300 kg
F-35C: 8,901 kg
F-15E/E+: 5,920 kg + CFT
F-16E: 3,160 kg + CFT
F-18E: 6,532 kg
EF-2K: 4,996 kg + CFT
Rafale B: 4,240 kg + CFT
Rafale C: 4,500 kg + CFT
Rafale M: 4,500 kg + CFT
Su-35: 10,250 kg

C. Wing Surface Area:

FA-22: 78.03 m2
FB-22: 110.00 m2
F-35A: 42.74 m2
F-35B: 42.74 m2
F-35C: 57.60 m2
F-15E/E+: 56.50 m2
F-16E: 27.87 m2
F-18E: 46.45 m2
EF-2K: 50.00 m2
Rafale B/C/M: 45.70 m2
Su-35: 62.00 m2

D. Comparison of air-combat weight, T/W ratio, and wing-load among these fighters at the "fair" condition (with the same kind and the amount of AAM weapons + roughly equal combat radius):

FA-22: 6,500 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
FB-22: 7,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
F-35A/B/C: 5,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
F-15E/E+: 7,000 kg (internal + CFT) fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
F-16E: 4,000 kg (internal + CFT) fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
F-18E: 6,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
EF-2000: 4,996 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + ASRAAM*2
RAFALE B/C/M: 4,500 /4,240 kg internal fuel + MICA EM*4 + MICA IR*2
Su-35: 6,700 kg internal fuel + R-77*4 + R-73M2*2

E. Air-combat weight:

FA-22: 27,000 kg
FB-22: 30,000 kg
F-35A: 18,300 kg
F-35B: 19,650 kg
F-35C: 19,950 kg
F-15E: 24,750 kg
F-15E+: 25,000 kg
F-16E: 15,000 kg
F-18E: 20,950 kg
EF-2K: 17,150 kg
Rafale B: 14,900 kg
Rafale C: 14,800 kg
Rafale M: 15,300 kg
Su-35: 26,250 kg

F. Wing-load (E/C):

FA-22: 346.0 kg/m2 (Score: 1.000)
FB-22: 272.7 kg/m2 (Score: 1.269)
F-35A: 428.2 kg/m2 (Score: 0.808 )
F-35B: 459.8 kg/m2 (Score: 0.753)
F-35C: 346.4 kg/m2 (Score: 1.000)
F-15E: 438.8 kg/m2 (Score: 0.789)
F-15E+: 442.5 kg/m2 (Score: 0.782)
F-16E: 538.2 kg/m2 (Score: 0.643)
F-18E: 451.0 kg/m2 (Score: 0.767)
EF-2K: 343.0 kg/m2 (Score: 1.009)
Rafale B: 326.0 kg/m2 (Score: 1.061)
Rafale C: 323.9 kg/m2 (Score: 1.068 )
Rafale M: 334.8 kg/m2 (Score: 1.033)
Su-35: 423.4 kg/m2 (Score: 0.817)

G. T/W ratio, sea-level(AB thrust / Maximal military thrust):

FA-22: 1.270 / 0.857 (F-119, 37,800 Ib / 25,500 Ib *2), Score: 1.000 / 1.000
FB-22: 1.210 / 0.789 (F-135, 40,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *2), Score: 0.953 / 0.921
FB-22: 1.300 / 0.789 (F-135, 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *2), Score: 1.024 / 0.921
F-35A: 0.991~1.065 / 0.647 (F-135, 40,000 ~ 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *1): Score: 0.780~0.839 / 0.755
F-35B: 0.923~0.992 / 0.603 (F-135, 40,000 ~ 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *1): Score: 0.726~0.781 / 0.703
F-35C: 0.909~0.977 / 0.594 (F-135, 40,000 ~ 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *1): Score: 0.715~0.769 / 0.692
F-15E: 1.067 / 0.652 (F-100-PW-229, nowadays, 29,100 Ib / 17,800 Ib *2): Score: 0.840 / 0.761
F-15E+: 1.161 / 0.689 (F-110-GE-132, peace time, 32,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.914 / 0.804
F-15E+: 1.234 / 0.689 (F-110-GE-132, war time, 34,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.972 / 0.804
F-16E: 0.968 / 0.575 (F-110-GE-132, peace time, 32,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *1): Score: 0.762 / 0.671
F-16E: 1.029 / 0.575 (F-110-GE-132, the war time, 34,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *1): Score: 0.810 / 0.671
F-16E: 1.119 / ????? (F-110-GE-XXX, post-2010 ?, 37,000 Ib / ?????Ib *1): Score: 0.881 / ?????
F-18E: 0.953 / 0.606 (F-414-GE-400, nowadays, 22,000 Ib / 14,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.750 / 0.707
F-18E: 1.148 / 0.729 (F-414-GE-???, post-2015?, 26,500 Ib / 16,850 Ib *2): Score: 0.904 / 0.851
EF-2K: 1.071 / 0.714 (EJ200, peace time, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.843 / 0.833
EF-2K: 1.130 / 0.821 (EJ200, the war time, 21,370 Ib / 15,525 Ib *2): Score: 0.890 / 0.956
EF-2K: 1.178 / 0.821 (EJ200, small revision, 22,275 Ib / 15,525 Ib *2): Score: 0.927 / 0.956
EF-2K: 1.222 / 0.857 (EJ230, post-2010 ?, 23,100 Ib / 16,200 Ib *2): Score: 0.962 / 1.000
EF-2K: 1.400 ~ 1.428 / 0.926 (EJ270, post-2015 ?, 27,000 Ib / 17,500 Ib *2): Score: 1.102 ~ 1.124 / 1.081
RAFA B: 1.027 / 0.685 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2): Score: 0.809 / 0.799
RAFA B: 1.209 / 0.806 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.952 / 0.940
RAFA C: 1.038 / 0.692 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2): Score: 0.817 / 0.807
RAFA C: 1.222 / 0.815 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.962 / 0.951
RAFA M: 1.000 / 0.667 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2): Score: 0.787 / 0.778
RAFA M: 1.177 / 0.785 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.927 / 0.916
Su-35: 1.104 / 0.648 (AL-37FU, nowadays, 31,970 Ib / 18,740 Ib *2): Score: 0.869 / 0.756
Su-35: 1.244 / 0.829 (AL-41F1, post-2015?, 36,000 Ib / 24,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.980 / 0.967

Forum Veteran Joined: Apr 16, 2005 - 03:16 PM Posts: 800

Your numbers are great toan.. However I wonder whether all of these performances comparison are relevant in the era of BVR.

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

F-16 versus anybody