Forum: F-16 Procedures

Hello, I am Yasir Bhojani... I was wondering that could F-16or F-15 take-off if the brakes are applied? Also, can F-16 or F-15 perform Cobra maneuver using brakes?

I know that my both questions are childish and weird because brakes are just used for slowing the plane down when it is landing but still, I was just wondering... So, any answer?

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Last edited by Tinito_16 on Aug 19, 2008 - 02:48 AM; edited 1 time in total

You mean air brakes? They can, probably, but it's going to take them awhile to take off. As for the Cobra, I doubt it, though I'm not sure.

Thanx.....Actually, I was wandering about the F-15 last night as I was installing the spine-air brake to my F-15 model ( No scale )...When I was trying to see if it is adjusted, I accidently made it perform the Cobra maneuver....

HUH ??

What ???? What was the thing you didn't understand ????? Confused

yasirbhojani wrote:

Thanx.....Actually, I was wandering about the F-15 last night as I was installing the spine-air brake to my F-15 model ( No scale )...When I was trying to see if it is adjusted, I accidently made it perform the Cobra maneuver....

This is what I am confused about. Maybe I'm just stupid but it makes no sense to me.

The production F-16 variants could never do it; maybe the MATV/VISTA could have. As for the 15, I believe that manuever is impossible without thrust vectoring or forwards canards. The cobra required something like 120 degrees of AOA and the 15 just can't do that AND recover back to level flight.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

No, the F-15's air brake does not cause the nose of the aircraft to pitch up, if that's what you're asking.

I would take a guess and say sure a 16 with a 129 engine would take off with the speed brakes fully open, would not be pretty and I think you would have to be somewhat clean with light fuel and a lot of runway. As for the 15, no idea as all I ever got to do was touch one at an airshow but that brake sure looks big and is in a much more critical location as far as aerodynamics is concerned. The 16's brakes are more like have a chute hooked on the **** end.

Quote:

The production F-16 variants could never do it; maybe the MATV/VISTA could have. As for the 15, I believe that manuever is impossible without thrust vectoring or forwards canards. The cobra required something like 120 degrees of AOA and the 15 just can't do that AND recover back to level flight.

In the topic "<a href="f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-10832.html">F-16 Cobra maneuver - possible or not?</a>", I wrote that I was told by my uncle who was a Sq.Ldr of F-7p aircraft of Pakistan Air force that only the aircraft with thrust vectoring nozzle can perform such a difficult move....But then, in the topic, I was told that the first ever Cobra maneuver was applied by the early version of Mig-29 that was far from thrust vectoring technology. That was the one thing that shocked me....Any explanations on that please?

I would really appreciate if any person who have flown Mig-29, Su-30, Su-35, Su-37 ( Nearly impossible ) or F-16 would give his comments or explanations....

Thanks anyways for such great info...

If Wikipedia can be trusted... I know I know, I take all Wiki info with a grain of salt. This article claims that the Mig-29 and the 18E/F can do the Cobra. I still stand by my previous statement that the true maneuver is impossible without canards or thrust vectoring. I.E Horizontal flight transitioning to 90+ AOA and returning to horizontal flight. All the a/c can do a high pitch stall and recover, but that isn't the Cobra.

Aircraft known to be able to make the Cobra maneuver are:

The Su-27 'Flanker' ;
The MiG-29 'Fulcrum'
The Saab Draken
The Rafale
The F/A-18E/F ;
Thrust vectoring aircraft, which should be able to perform this maneuver more easily (though note that the air intake still needs to be able to handle the air inflow) are:

The Su-27 'Flanker' family is often equipped with TVC;
The MiG-29 'Fulcrum' has a variant with TVC;
The Su-47 'Berkut' Was to be equipped with TVC;
The Eurofighter Typhoon May be equipped with TVC at a later date;
The F-22 Raptor ;
The F-15 ACTIVE ;
The F-16 MATV/VISTA
The NASA Rockwell-MBB X-31

Thanx for the info....But bro, I myself saw a video which showed an Indian Su-30 ( which u 4got to mention ) performing the cobra....I wish normal F-16's were able to perform it....

Essentially the Su-27 and the -30 are the same airframe, but the Indian variants of the 30 (Su-30MKI) has canards and of course the 30 has a lot of other upgrades. Kind of like a block 15 f-16 vs a block 50.

Ok guys, I got the answer and I m sharing it here for your information only......Thoguh, I never thought that I would be posting the answer to my question myself......Ok, here goes:
I study in 10th grade and yesterday I asked my physics teacher ( Who also has interest in air force ) that how is cobra maneuver performed ??? he replied that an aircraft moves 4ward when the thrust from behind pushes it......So, when the thrust is directed to the ground ( when the nose faces up ), a time comes when the released thrust comes equal to the weight of the aircraft...When this happens, the aircraft stops in the air for a sec or two...It stops only for a second or two because it is really difficult to keep the released thrust equal to the aircraft weight..Most of the times, it is less than the aircraft weight and the other times, it is greater than the weight....So, here are the conclusions:

1- Every aircraft that can perform cobra, can perform it for even 15 or 20 seconds if the thrust is increased slightly with a difference of 1 or 2 sec so that the thrust remains equal to the weight continously....Thoguh, it is nearly impossible

2- F-15 can perform cobra maneuver if it releases the same amount of thrust equal to its weight or if it is fitted with a new and high thrust releaser engine

3- Thrust vectoring nozzles are not neccessary but can cum in handy in real dogfights, as it helps to produce a massive movement and change in the direction of released thrust which makes it equl to the weight of the aircraft rapidly...

If u hv any other questions, ask here and I'll confirm it from him in terms of physics.....

Also, that answers one more of the question that I had on mind ( u might would have wondered it too ), that why do sometimes Sukhoi jets pulls-up but fails to perform cobra ???? i.e they either turn over or they remain in the position of cobra but decreases altitude ...... In first case, the aircraft turns over due to the thrust which becomes greater than the aircraft weight ( not confirm but it is 99 % true in my view ) and in second case, the aircraft looses altitude because the thrust starts to become lesser than the aircraft weight after the aircraft have performed cobra....
I hope this would have helped a lot....

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Can an F-16 or F-15 take-off with brakes applied?