Forum: F-22A Raptor

geogen wrote:

c5crewchief wrote:

I know the House version had money for advanced procurement. It was the Senate version that included money for either advanced procurement or shutting down the line. Today, both House and Senate voted on a final version to be sent to the President. I was trying to verify which version was accepted.

Very interesting. Please respond back if possible, as soon as you can verify.

And Ob, I concur... I hope to heck this 'to shut-down or not' final decision is indeed left up to the next admin and not fire-hose-fed down the throats of current 'deciders' by way of Gates and camp. (no offense to Gates otherwise)

You're aware that if (god help us) Obama gets in the F-22 line will be shut down before the presidential seat is even warm right? (With the F-35 to go on life support shortly after.) Get ready to open up your wallet WIDE to pay for everybody else's credit cards, bad mortgages, healthcare, and anything else the left can come up with to ease the pain of the "downtrodden" at the expense of those familiar with the concept of personal responsibility.

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sferrin wrote:

geogen wrote:

c5crewchief wrote:

I know the House version had money for advanced procurement. It was the Senate version that included money for either advanced procurement or shutting down the line. Today, both House and Senate voted on a final version to be sent to the President. I was trying to verify which version was accepted.

Very interesting. Please respond back if possible, as soon as you can verify.

And Ob, I concur... I hope to heck this 'to shut-down or not' final decision is indeed left up to the next admin and not fire-hose-fed down the throats of current 'deciders' by way of Gates and camp. (no offense to Gates otherwise)

You're aware that if (god help us) Obama gets in the F-22 line will be shut down before the presidential seat is even warm right? (With the F-35 to go on life support shortly after.) Get ready to open up your wallet WIDE to pay for everybody else's credit cards, bad mortgages, healthcare, and anything else the left can come up with to ease the pain of the "downtrodden" at the expense of those familiar with the concept of personal responsibility.

There is no such evidence whatsoever, Sferrin, that an Obama/Biden admin would instruct immediate unconditional cancellation of F-22 line. It could just as easily be suggested that said new admin would in fact extend Raptor production rates.

geogen wrote:

sferrin wrote:

geogen wrote:

c5crewchief wrote:

I know the House version had money for advanced procurement. It was the Senate version that included money for either advanced procurement or shutting down the line. Today, both House and Senate voted on a final version to be sent to the President. I was trying to verify which version was accepted.

Very interesting. Please respond back if possible, as soon as you can verify.

And Ob, I concur... I hope to heck this 'to shut-down or not' final decision is indeed left up to the next admin and not fire-hose-fed down the throats of current 'deciders' by way of Gates and camp. (no offense to Gates otherwise)

You're aware that if (god help us) Obama gets in the F-22 line will be shut down before the presidential seat is even warm right? (With the F-35 to go on life support shortly after.) Get ready to open up your wallet WIDE to pay for everybody else's credit cards, bad mortgages, healthcare, and anything else the left can come up with to ease the pain of the "downtrodden" at the expense of those familiar with the concept of personal responsibility.

There is no such evidence whatsoever, Sferrin, that an Obama/Biden admin would instruct immediate unconditional cancellation of F-22 line. It could just as easily be suggested that said new admin would in fact extend Raptor production rates.

It's a democratic tradition to gut the military to pay for entitlements and Obama's is the longest list yet.

sferrin wrote:

geogen wrote:

c5crewchief wrote:

I know the House version had money for advanced procurement. It was the Senate version that included money for either advanced procurement or shutting down the line. Today, both House and Senate voted on a final version to be sent to the President. I was trying to verify which version was accepted.

Very interesting. Please respond back if possible, as soon as you can verify.

And Ob, I concur... I hope to heck this 'to shut-down or not' final decision is indeed left up to the next admin and not fire-hose-fed down the throats of current 'deciders' by way of Gates and camp. (no offense to Gates otherwise)

You're aware that if (god help us) Obama gets in the F-22 line will be shut down before the presidential seat is even warm right? (With the F-35 to go on life support shortly after.) Get ready to open up your wallet WIDE to pay for everybody else's credit cards, bad mortgages, healthcare, and anything else the left can come up with to ease the pain of the "downtrodden" at the expense of those familiar with the concept of personal responsibility.

Firstly, a nation whose entire economy is based on credit cannot have any notion of "personal responsibility" whatsoever. But before I get off on a philosophical tangent, suffice it to say that your statement has no factual basis whatsoever. It is far more likely, however, that if McCrazy gets elected the presidential seat will not even be warm before the guy croaks and we have Sarah "Mooseburger" Palin as president. And THAT, my friends, scares the living sh!t out of me. But don't take my word for it, just read what staunchly conservative commentators like George Will, David Brooks and Peggy Noonan have been writing lately. Do you wonder at all why the smart wing of the Republican party has been abandoning ship lately? Because the idiot wing has clearly taken over. Give me the elitists any day before the I-breed-retarded-inbred-children, common folk like Sarah Palin. We're talking about the goddamned presidency of the U.S., not a Jerry Springer show, for chrissakes!!!

sferrin wrote:

geogen wrote:

sferrin wrote:

geogen wrote:

c5crewchief wrote:

I know the House version had money for advanced procurement. It was the Senate version that included money for either advanced procurement or shutting down the line. Today, both House and Senate voted on a final version to be sent to the President. I was trying to verify which version was accepted.

Very interesting. Please respond back if possible, as soon as you can verify.

And Ob, I concur... I hope to heck this 'to shut-down or not' final decision is indeed left up to the next admin and not fire-hose-fed down the throats of current 'deciders' by way of Gates and camp. (no offense to Gates otherwise)

You're aware that if (god help us) Obama gets in the F-22 line will be shut down before the presidential seat is even warm right? (With the F-35 to go on life support shortly after.) Get ready to open up your wallet WIDE to pay for everybody else's credit cards, bad mortgages, healthcare, and anything else the left can come up with to ease the pain of the "downtrodden" at the expense of those familiar with the concept of personal responsibility.

There is no such evidence whatsoever, Sferrin, that an Obama/Biden admin would instruct immediate unconditional cancellation of F-22 line. It could just as easily be suggested that said new admin would in fact extend Raptor production rates.

It's a democratic tradition to gut the military to pay for entitlements and Obama's is the longest list yet.

Really? Was this true of FDR? Truman? JFK? LBJ? Your statement is demonstrably false. Only in the case of Jimmy Carter is this true, but most Democrats acknowledge he was an awful president, regardless of whether he was Democrat or Republican. Defense spending during the Clinton years was not any less than it would have been during a Republican administration, and during his tenure the government actually shrank and defficits were reduced, the opposite of what's happened under Bush. And guess who warned against the growth of the military industrial complex? Eisenhower, a Republican. Politics are not so black and white, nor even red and blue. Grow up, kid, and catch up on your history.

sferrin wrote:

It's a democratic tradition to gut the military to pay for entitlements and Obama's is the longest list yet.

Perhaps a tradition since Carter sure, but the point is irrelevant in this case, as tactical aircraft development and production has been an exception. It would simply be inadvisable, imo, for a president to cancel a deemed critical, strategic tactical program... whereas it may be politically acceptable and calculated for an admin to cancel a particular missile defense interceptor, nuclear warhead, bomber, boat or ICBM R&D program, etc.

IMO, they will probably keep the Raptor line open, while defense officials continue to wait out analysis of the Pak-FA capability and 'intent', let alone Kremlin plans for new mod Mig/SU recapitalization and foreign proliferation. It would only be prudent. Farther out, a 2026 timeframe 6th gen fighter could come into play and should be taken into account.

Obama and Biden would listen to their top military advisors/staff if such a tactical aviation crisis was deemed critical.

Regardless of next admin however, do expect reduced F-35 orders at least in the short-term (e.g. 4 yrs), (from the original pipe dream, cheap fighter plans), as this would seem only realistic given budget realities.

Obamanite wrote:

sferrin wrote:

geogen wrote:

sferrin wrote:

geogen wrote:

c5crewchief wrote:

I know the House version had money for advanced procurement. It was the Senate version that included money for either advanced procurement or shutting down the line. Today, both House and Senate voted on a final version to be sent to the President. I was trying to verify which version was accepted.

Very interesting. Please respond back if possible, as soon as you can verify.

And Ob, I concur... I hope to heck this 'to shut-down or not' final decision is indeed left up to the next admin and not fire-hose-fed down the throats of current 'deciders' by way of Gates and camp. (no offense to Gates otherwise)

You're aware that if (god help us) Obama gets in the F-22 line will be shut down before the presidential seat is even warm right? (With the F-35 to go on life support shortly after.) Get ready to open up your wallet WIDE to pay for everybody else's credit cards, bad mortgages, healthcare, and anything else the left can come up with to ease the pain of the "downtrodden" at the expense of those familiar with the concept of personal responsibility.

There is no such evidence whatsoever, Sferrin, that an Obama/Biden admin would instruct immediate unconditional cancellation of F-22 line. It could just as easily be suggested that said new admin would in fact extend Raptor production rates.

It's a democratic tradition to gut the military to pay for entitlements and Obama's is the longest list yet.

Really? Was this true of FDR? Truman? JFK? LBJ? Your statement is demonstrably false. Only in the case of Jimmy Carter is this true, but most Democrats acknowledge he was an awful president, regardless of whether he was Democrat or Republican. Defense spending during the Clinton years was not any less than it would have been during a Republican administration, and during his tenure the government actually shrank and defficits were reduced, the opposite of what's happened under Bush. And guess who warned against the growth of the military industrial complex? Eisenhower, a Republican. Politics are not so black and white, nor even red and blue. Grow up, kid, and catch up on your history.

No comment on Obama's entitlement Christmas list eh? No surprise there. Rolling Eyes

Just keep on drinkin' that Kool-Aid.

geogen wrote:

sferrin wrote:

It's a democratic tradition to gut the military to pay for entitlements and Obama's is the longest list yet.

Perhaps a tradition since Carter sure, but the point is irrelevant in this case, as tactical aircraft development and production has been an exception. It would simply be inadvisable, imo, for a president to cancel a deemed critical, strategic tactical program... whereas it may be politically acceptable and calculated for an admin to cancel a particular missile defense interceptor, nuclear warhead, bomber, boat or ICBM R&D program, etc.

IMO, they will probably keep the Raptor line open, while defense officials continue to wait out analysis of the Pak-FA capability and 'intent', let alone Kremlin plans for new mod Mig/SU recapitalization and foreign proliferation. It would only be prudent. Farther out, a 2026 timeframe 6th gen fighter could come into play and should be taken into account.

Obama and Biden would listen to their top military advisors/staff if such a tactical aviation crisis was deemed critical.

Regardless of next admin however, do expect reduced F-35 orders at least in the short-term (e.g. 4 yrs), (from the original pipe dream, cheap fighter plans), as this would seem only realistic given budget realities.

The US military is about to enter the "perfect storm" of military procurement train wrecks. Because we haven't been replacing stuff like submarines, fighters, tankers, etc. they're all reaching the ends of their lifetimes (or past them) and the bill is about to come due. We're using a 40 year old ICBM and recently decided it was a good idea to stop producing motors for them. (another brilliant move) About the only area where we're doing okay is in destroyers and that's because (probably by accident) they bought Burkes on a regular basis and at a rate that makes the unit price economical. They seemed to have missed that basic lesson on damn near everything else. Certainly the majority of the reason for the Raptor's high cost is because of stretching the program out to rediculous lengths. 6 YEARS to go from prototype to production model and another NINE to enter service? There have been many aircraft that went from drawing board to scrap yard in less time. So now we're in a situation where many things are needing to be replaced and possibly going to get saddled with an intern, excuse me, "community organizer" who wants to turn the US into a communist country. Those who complain about the years of the Bush administration ain't seen nothin' yet if this poser gets in. Ah well, enough of politics and soap boxes. Smile

(No doubt the O-bot will perform a drive-by but he's more entertainment than annoying. )

Forum: F-22A Raptor

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