Forum: Air Force Life

Brig. Gen. Tom Tinsley, 3rd Wing commander photographed here on April 28th, 2008.

Elmendorf Air Force Base wrote:

Elmendorf loses wing commander

7/29/2008 - ELMENDORF AIR FORCE BASE, Alaska -- Brig. Gen. Thomas L. Tinsley, commander of the 3rd Wing here, died of a gunshot wound Sunday at his on-base residence.

Elmendorf medical authorities responded and General Tinsley was declared dead at approximately 10:30 pm July 27. The general had served as the wing commander here since May 2007.

"Elmendorf is focusing on taking care of Mrs. Tinsley and her family right now," said Col. Richard Walberg, 3rd Wing Vice Commander. We ask that your thoughts and prayers go out to his family as well as his Air Force family who regarded him as a mentor, leader, world-class Airman and friend."

The incident is under investigation and more information will be provided as it becomes available.

General Tinsley was commissioned in 1984 through the ROTC program at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and subsequently was a distinguished graduate of undergraduate pilot training. He has served as an F-15 instructor pilot, F-15C test pilot, wing weapons officer, exchange officer and instructor with the Royal Australian Air Force.

He has served in the Directorate for Plans and Policy on the Joint Staff as South Asia desk officer and executive assistant to the Deputy for Political-Military Affairs for Asia Pacific and the Middle East. He has commanded the 12th Fighter Squadron, Elmendorf AFB, and the 1st Operations Group, Langley AFB, Va.

source: http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123108334

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geogen wrote:

Tragic (and grief) indeed.

I'm going to stick my neck out here (but then when will it be appropriate with respects to his family), to ask if it was one shot or multiple? And at what range and what trajectory? These answers must be made public ASAP... both for respect to his family (in closing, as being the important public figure as he was) and for the public's interest in the democratic system we have.

Furthermore, it must be made public info as to the extent into the official/private investigation into his death, again, for the public's interest in a modern democratic system.

On a total side note and completely independent, does anyone know if Brig Gen. Tinsley was more pro-F-35 or pro-F-22, or if he had any opinion therein vis-a-vis RAAF selection?? I'm sorry for an insensitive question but perhaps there is no other better time to ask as well. Thanks in advance and you can PM me if you prefer.

God Speed, Elmendorf, USAF and family.

Respects.

I'm not sure how it's relevant at all what Gen. Tinsley thought about the F-35 vs. the F-22 for the Aussies. A moot question, anyhow, as recent reports suggest their mind is made up in favor of the F-35. Also, since Tinsley flew the Raptor and not the SLUF, I would presume he would prefer his own airplane.

Also, I'm not sure the USAF is under any particular obligation to the public to release information regarding this incident as it becomes available, as you're suggesting. People shoot themselves for a variety of reasons all the time, and I don't know why in the world you or anyone else not directly affected by this incident have any right to know the circumstances of his shooting, self-inflicted or otherwise, short of an outright assasination by foreign agents, which is, needless to say, exceedingly unlikely.

Ob,

In the United States of America system of democracy, I'd have to disagree with you, that in such a high level tragic death, the public should be aware of whether it was "Self-inflicted or otherwise" as you say (not exactly sure what you were trying to say about 'otherwise')? And if it was self-inflicted, more information should be made public, imo, I'll just have to disagree with you here.

He was a high-ranking public miltary servant. Not a Private military servant.

The US system of a progressing, liberal democracy must continue to act always as an example to her citizens and to the world as an example, vis-a-vis very challenging circumstances such as this.

Peace to his family and strength to Elmendorf~

No matter who it is a cause of death must be listed.

Last edited by JoeSambor on Jul 30, 2008 - 04:41 PM; edited 1 time in total

I cite as precedent for release of this information the 1996 suicide of Admiral Mike Boorda, who rose from the lowest enlisted rank to finally command the US Navy, and who committed suicide over a medal witch hunt led by that rat-basta%d David Hackworth. What a waste.

Admiral Boorda had an appointment with two Newsweek reporters, one of whom was Hackworth. When he was informed of the topic of the interview, he abruptly left to go home for lunch (despite the fact that his lunch had already been delivered to his office) and was found shortly thereafter with a gunshot wound to the chest. He left two suicide notes, one of which was directed to all sailors, in which he expressed regret at the upcoming scandal such an investigation would cause.

He had maintained publicly that the "V" devices on two of his ribbons had been earned in Vietnam, and another Navy Admiral confirmed this. After his death, his son requested an inquiry from the Board of Naval Records, which confirmed that he was not authorized to wear the devices.

Despite this tragic end to his life, he was loved and respected by his sailors, and certainly this minor error would have been forgiven. Admiral Boorda's proud legacy lives on in a scholarship fund in his name, and some of his children are Navy officers.

Best Regards,

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

My condolences to the family and friends of the victim.

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While I agree that in the long run the cause of death should be made public (unless there is some need for national security which only should be invoked in very rare cases; in this case I don’t think should apply), for the short-term or midterm I think it should be SAP to have some degree of confidentiality and delay the information from hitting the street.

As a courtesy and as a matter of being civil I think that most details should be kept private until there is reasonable effort and time to notify immediate family and friends about the victim’s passing or injury. I feel that after the victims and immediate friends are notified or that a reasonable effort has been made and after a short period of grief is allowed that some of the details can be gradually released to the public. However.

I feel that most information should be withheld from the public until there has been a decent time for investigators to start and do their job. I feel that investigators should have some say on what information can be released and when, up to a point. Sometimes some evidence and the immediate interpretation of the evidence may point in the wrong direction; often there is other evidence or theories that is discovered that can cause a reinterpretation of the previous evidence that can lead an investigation in an entirely different direction. I think that the authorities can and should have some degree of control of information that is being released to the public to prevent bias of the public and the investigation itself.

Criminal investigations should not be a media circus like the O.J. Simpson trial or the Iraq WMD issue.

I can’t say for sure that O.J. Simpson was guilty but the evidence seemed to be pretty strong that he was; unfortunately the premature release of information and interpretations seem to have biased the investigation, the trial, the media and the public. There has been over 500 documented WMDs in Iraq, so-called “SCUDs” were fired at the coalition and civilians, there are even some soldiers that got sick from chemical weapons that were being used as IEDs even though they had protective gear and antidotes; yet contrary to the truth and facts; the general public and the media claims and believes that there wasn’t any WMDs.

The premature release of the investigation and theories can contaminate an investigation. Therefore I think the investigators should have a reasonable period of time to hold and delay information that is being released to the public. I think the status quo should be to be fairly tightlipped for a week or so and under some circumstances I think some information could be withheld for a year or so, and under very rare circumstances even longer. I think the information should be released in such a way not to try not to contaminate the investigation and violate the victims rights.

There needs to be a balance between serving justice and the rights of the victims and the right for the public to know. That balance may be slightly different depending on the case and situation. But the best efforts as possible should be that so things are fair as possible for all sides. People may have differing opinions exactly where that line should be drawn.

Something as simple as saying an injury appears to be self inflicting can contaminate an investigation and the public perception and can be used by shysters to get criminals off the hook. Often a preliminary interpretation is not the same as the final interpretation. Sometimes an injury that first appears one way such as self-inflicted may look to be an act of murder that was covered up and made to look self-inflicted, or perhaps the self-inflicted wound was forced, in any way great care should be used in the release and interpretation of evidence. Just because an injury first appears to be self-inflicted, does not necessarily mean it was a suicide.

I don’t know what type of injury is in this incident, however perhaps it’s good that the information is not public yet, in the end the information should be made public.

Though I don’t think applies in this case, remember that just because the public does have the right to know, it doesn’t have the right to know everything. There are some things that are a matter of national security.

Remember there are many families out there that have received letters such as “we regret to inform you that your loved one was lost in the line of duty “ for many that is all they know and all that is public.

Pugs was a true professional and very caring and engaged individual! This is a real tragedy. My condolences to all those that had the pleasure to know him.

-Rasta

Havent heard anymore on this incident in the news. Have they found out if it was suicide, or an accidental self inflected gunshot? Sounded like a great guy and leader, he'll be missed for sure.

According to an article in the AF Times he was recently laid to rest at Arlington National, it is still under investigation. hopefully there will be some closure for tha family with in the next month.

Looks like they gave a brief to the whole Wing as a form of trying to make some sense out of losing a very popular leader.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/ ... de_110608/

Sad.

They tell us all about having a "wingman" and briefs on how to recognize people that might do something like this. But who looks out for a guy like this that if you read his bio, he was always in the pressure cooker... move... move... move... ?

Maybe something can be gained from this at senior commanders conferences where they take a closer look at the idea of looking out for each other a la the wingman concept.

I find it incredibly hypocritical and disturbing of the Air Force's current climate that although the General had "a significant amount of alcohol" in his system, they're not going to release HOW MUCH, nor are they going to attribute that to the incident.

So now you have to ask yourself, how likely is it that they would protect the reputation of an E-2 or E-3 who got drunk off his butt and plugged himself? How likely is it that the entire Wing would've been involved in multiple alcohol awareness training pain events, and forced to endure higher punishments for alcohol incidents, if this had been an airmen, rather than a general.

Further illumination of different standards for different folks.

Blu4 wrote:

How likely is it that the entire Wing would've been involved in multiple alcohol awareness training pain events...

Actually, very likely. Earlier this year, my base unfortunately had an E who killed themself, and then the entire Wing had to go to briefings on noticing the warning signs, how to be a better wingman, how "0-0-1-3" is a benefit, and how it's not "ratting your buddy out" when you tell somebody that you see problems in your friends.

In this kindler, gentler age, when somebody craps, everybody wears a diaper.

TC - Actually, that's my whole point, although I phrased it very poorly. If it had been a young Airman, this would've spurred wing support groups, additional mandatory training, the supervisory chain would've been lashed at in multiple meeting for failing to prevent it....in short, everybody would've been given their diaper.

Because it's a general, and the wing king, he still gets a burial with full honors at Arlington, a very extensive memorial ceremony, tearful goodbyes from the entire wing, multiple writeups in the base and local papers, and the Air Force is witholding some of the more critical details of his self-inflicted death (ie, "substantial" amounts of alcohol).

So they'll call it a suicide, with no motive, but they won't class it as an alcohol incident? WTF?

It's brutal hypocrisy. We have young men dying every day in combat who do not get anywhere NEAR the honors after death that a drunk Wing King gets when he offed himself. It's not right.

Well said elp and TC.. Just curious, TC, do you have a blog?

This is about as close to "blogging" as it gets for me.

As far as honors for our KIAs, all receive a full-honors funeral. If for no one else, I know that it means a lot to the family and friends of the departed. Perhaps it doesn't get the press time, because lower ranking soldiers get killed in action much more often than Wing Commanders die under mysterious circumstances. One is the norm in combat, and the other is completely out of the ordinary.

BTW, before this when was the last time an AF general died on active duty? Jerry O'Malley and his wife in 1985? General Bond died the year before that in, what is believed to have been, a Flogger. Goes to show that it doesn't happen very often, and when it does, it's a very high profile leader of many troops who dies.

My Two Cents

Forum: Air Force Life

Elmendorf commander dies of gunshot wound