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ATC
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Posted: Jul 10, 2008 - 02:53 AM
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Active Member

Joined: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 244
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“UGLY” NEAR-MISS INCIDENT AT JFK AIRPORT SATURDAY; CAYMAN AIRWAYS JET EXECUTING MISSED APPROACH CROSSES PATHS WITH DEPARTING 767
NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION (NATCA)
For Immediate Release
July 7, 2008
CONTACT: Barrett Byrnes, NATCA New York-JFK Tower Facility Representative, 631-365-1411
NEW YORK – There was a very scary near mid-air collision at New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport on Saturday night (July 5). At approximately 8:30 p.m. EDT, LAN Chile Flight 533 (Boeing 767) was taking off from Runway 13-Right. At the same time, Cayman Airways Flight 792 (Boeing 737) was executing a missed approach on 22-Left, which runs perpendicular off the end of 13-Right.
When a JFK Tower air traffic controller saw that Cayman 792 was executing the missed approach, he gave instructions for the jet to make a left turn to avoid the departing LAN Chile 533, which was told to turn right, over the water. But it was too late. The paths of both jets crossed. Air traffic controllers at New York Terminal Radar Approach Control in Westbury, N.Y., which handles airborne flights into and out of JFK, say the radar targets of both jets merged on top of each other and estimated their closest proximity at 100 feet.
Controllers at both JFK Tower and New York TRACON all used the word “ugly” to describe the incident. One TRACON controllers said it was the ugliest go-around they have seen in 24 years on the job. Other TRACON controllers said the radar targets of both jets merged into one on their scopes
Recording of the event:
http://www.natca.org/assets/multimedia/jfk-070508.wmv
JFK layout:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0807/00610AD.PDF |
_________________ Lord bless Charlie Mops
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Sponsor
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Posted: Dec 04, 2008 - 10:40 PM
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F-16.net Sponsor
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Elliboom
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Posted: Jul 10, 2008 - 11:42 AM
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Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 259
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| It's incindents like these that show just how dangerous the "Land and Hold Short" procedure can be. I am only guessing but it sounds like the 737 was cleared to land and hold short of 13R on 22R, while the 767 was cleared for takeoff on 13R. If these were in fact the clearances given they were fine as long as the 737 actually lands, and does not land long and is able to either hold short of 13R or clear 22R before reaching 13R. To me it's too easy for this type of clearance to get dorked up, by something like a missed approach. I understand why large, busy airports use this procedure, but it's only a matter of time before something like this turn two jets and a few hunder people into a smoking hole someplace. |
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ATC
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Posted: Jul 10, 2008 - 03:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 244
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This isn't a LAHSO situation because the runways do not intersect - the flight paths definitely do, though. Each pilot may use the full length of their assigned runway. See the above posted airport diagram.
No doubt, this is a dangerous situation. In Detroit, this is not allowed, but at JFK, FAA management wanted to increase the airport acceptance rate (number of aircraft that may arrive in an hour). If you haven't noticed, the current FAA is more concerned with 'running it like a business' than safety. Congress is starting to catch on, but unfortunately it will probably take a huge disaster and even worse delays before the general public catches on and cares enough to bitch. |
_________________ Lord bless Charlie Mops
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Elliboom
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Posted: Jul 10, 2008 - 05:14 PM
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Senior member

Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 259
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I looked at the airfield diagram again, and your right, I was looking at 22R when I made my assumption, but I guess it's sort of the same problem, you still have to plan on the aircraft on 22L landing and not going missed in order for the whole scenario to work out. I agree it's probably going to take another Tenerife type of accident for congress to wake up. We hear every month how runway incursions and near misses are on the rise. Here at LNK they have cut the ATC staff to the point where they cannot even clear us on the hold anymore becasue they just don't have enough people to ensure out safety.
I have a good friend who is a controller at KCI and listening to him talk I don't know why anyone would get into ATC anymore. He is nearing reitrement, but a few years ago when I thought about going into the field he highly discouraged it. |
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ATC
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Posted: Jul 11, 2008 - 02:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 244
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To bad you were discouraged. It is the best job, but working for the FAA I have the worst employer. I got into it because I have confidence that things will get better. By all accounts, things are worse now than they were for PATCO in '81, so I guess it can only get better. If it doesn't, I'll go fly for a living.
Are you near KCI? I have a couple friends that work the Prarie area of ZKC.
The TIPH rules are a bunch of crap now. It is controversial enough where Guard Bureau is not requiring their tower controllers to follow the FAA order about it - same for USAF towers. |
_________________ Lord bless Charlie Mops
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StolichnayaStrafer
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Posted: Jul 11, 2008 - 05:11 AM
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Senior member

Joined: Jan 20, 2008
Posts: 367
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I was a victim of the land and hold short syndrome once while on a night flight! It was 12/23/93(my birthday) while out on a training hop. Hanscom AFB in Bedford MA had me land and hold short when just starting my final approach- only to say continue my touch and go at the last moment! Needless to say, it was a bit flustering while concentrating on NOT screwing up. I wound up doing some kind of funky Texas two step bouncing back and forth between the mains on the Piper Cherokee Warrior I was flying! Definitely the worst of my touch and go landings in my short flying career!!!  |
_________________ Why is the vodka gone?
Why is the vodka always gone... oh- that's why!
Hide the vodka!!!
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Elliboom
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Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 04:09 PM
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Senior member

Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 259
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| ATC, no I am in Lincoln NE, (LNK). My friend used to be a controller at LNK, but now he is at KCI. Funny thing is that most of the guys who live in his cul-de-sac are ZKC guys, so there is a nice rivalry in the circle. I asked about the career again last year, and was told that the FAA did not hire anyone over 30. The taxi in place and hold rules are in place here because we are at a civilian field, and we just lost our RAPCON guys to OMA, so now all we have onsite is tower. |
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