Lastly, Conan, what Obamanite was trying to say (albeit unnecessarily rude) was that the F/A-18E has already been evaluated, while a formal evaluation of the other airframes is still pending. They may well be excluded for the same reason.

Stating a Super wouldn't fit in a NATO HAS seems crazy as someone pointed out.

Then too, since the Super has two engines and good one engine performance, this means you won't lawn dart one into the ground because the engine quits. The avionics for the two crew attack F Block II is pretty great.

Obaminator needs to understand that the F-35 has a lot of test hours to go before it proves itself. Lots of software, weapons clearance etc. Try before you buy. It may all work. But it is a very long way from proving it.

Right on, Joe. The relationship among the Euro F-16 air forces, the USAF and Lockheed Martin has been a close and constructive one. They even got the MLU for virtually nothing - the US picked up most of the cost on the grounds that they were going to upgrade Guard and Reserve A/Bs, which they didn't. But there are two problems. One is the assumption that the F-35 relationship will be the same, and the other is a knee-jerk reaction: They don't want to look at alterrnatives, rather than asking how their experience could be used to develop a relationship with another partner.

Wow, there is intelligent life in the universe after all, and by that I don't mean intelligent design

All valid points, LO. While the F135 will undoubtely be more complex, it is likely to be very, very easy to maintain at low through-life cost (can engine guy confirm this?).

“Ten years from now, our improvement programs for the engine should result in increased thrust and increased core life,” notes Gambill. “Technologies, such as turbine durability upgrades developed for the F135, could double the maintenance intervals for the hot sections of the F119. The resulting maintenance interval of ten to fifteen or more years is unheard of for turbine engines.”

“The F119’s durability, performance, and reputation on the F/A-22 program make it attractive for other programs,” concludes Stone. “We like to say that this engine is too good for just one application.”

The F135 is an evolution of the F119-PW-100, a technologically advanced turbofan that powers the Air Force's F-22 Raptor. It integrates the proven F119 core, a high-performance six-stage compressor and single-stage turbine unit with a new low-pressure spool. In addition, the propulsion system features advanced prognostic and on-condition management systems that provide maintenance awareness, autonomic logistic support, and automatic field data and test systems.

Propulsion system support and maintainability are further enhanced by the F135's maintenance-focused design. It has approximately 40 percent fewer parts, which also improves reliability. All line-replaceable components (LRCs) can be removed and replaced with a set of six common hand tools. And, the F135 has a 50 percent lower infrastructure support requirement compared to current engines.

The F414-GE-400 builds upon the excellent reliability, operability and readiness of the F404 engine. The F414 delivers 35% more thrust than the original F404, significantly improving the Boeing F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet's range, payload and survivability. Advanced technology features such as a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) improve operational characteristics of the engine while the latest materials and cooling techniques allow for higher temperatures and pressures without sacrificing component life.

F414: With 350,000 flight hours, the F414 engine continues to exceed reliability goals with the United States Navy. The F414 powered F/A-18E/F Super Hornet has expanded its presence in the U.S. Navy fleet, with 10 active squadrons available for carrier deployment. In June 2002, the Navy awarded GE a multiyear procurement (MYP) contract for 470 F414-GE-400 engines, bringing orders to a total of over 800 units. To date, more than 500 F414 engines have been delivered in support of the Navy's plan to purchase engines and spares for 559 twin-engine F/A-18E/F and EA-18G aircraft.

GE has continued testing growth versions of the F414, including an advanced core which can provide either a 15% increase in thrust or extended component life at current thrust levels. This configuration uses a six-stage, three-dimensional aerodynamic (3-D aero) high-pressure compressor and an advanced high-pressure turbine. The new compressor increases airflow and efficiency while the advanced turbine has higher temperature capability and improved efficiency.

GE has also completed extensive rig testing of the new high-pressure compressor and a new two- stage advanced fan. Later this year, GE will test this new fan with the advanced core to provide up to 20% more thrust than the current F414. These tests support a growth roadmap that gives customers the option of either increased performance or extended component lives at today's thrust.

TEG,
We'll have to see about engines. Right now the F135 is in a not-very-happy development program and the F414 is racking up hours in a tough environment. And although it's a different category of machine, the CFM56 is also a "legacy engine" and nobody's rendered it obsolete yet.

IMO Two F414s may not cost as much as a single F135 during procurement, but the life cycle costs of the F414s may be 3 or 4 times HIGHER than the F135.

My for what it's worth...

I am not so sure about that. ONE F135 has less parts than ONE F414, and heck of a lot less parts than TWO F414s. While it is most likely more expensive than an F414 due to its technological content, it is highly unlikely that it is more expensive than two F414s. Titanium, tungsten and steel doesn't cost a lot of money, what costs a lot of money is complexity which translates into cost of manufacturing.