Forum: Careers & Assignments

Totally agree buddy..and for what its worth..."Thank You!"

-Check

F-16.net Sponsor

It is worth everything, then and now Smile

Your welcome!

And here's a great old expression to remember..."If it's in the Air, Maintenance put it there"

Casshan,
I will try to make this quick. I do understand what you were trying to get across and a couple points I agree with. However, I am taking a guess (and correct me if I am wrong) in your current assignment you get a few perks, correct? Seeing how that you had so much to talk about team, when was the last time you extended any perks to a "team member" that was not your buddy or someone you worked with? How many times at a show site have you seen a couple maintainance guys setting up, catching 2-4 jets, and doing what needs to be done for about 12-14 hours while you enjoy the Hospitality Tent? How many times did you did you grab something to drink and or snack and take it out to them or set it aside before it was all gone? I am going to guess zero. I am sure any CC or maintainer can get the jist of what I am saying. On countless occassions while everyone else in a squadren is off work enjoying some sort of special event, there are people working jets. I will take a wild guess and say 90 percent of the time, when the guys or gals are done with jets there is nothing left for them. So please if you are going to pull the "One Team One Fight" card, do it across the board. Have you ever heard of the "Forgotten Mechanic?" Read it sometime, you might understand the reason for the attitude, with which we relish in.

That whole "I got mine" really pisses us off when there is nothing left.

I was extremely bitter to have busted my a$$ as a crew chief for 6 years, wanting nothing more than a ride in my airplane. And as such, I hated the fact that cadets and cooks got more rides than flightline maintainers. Low and behold, my very last duty day in the USAF, I got my ride...and it was awsome!!!! You know who else got rides that day? Two other crew chiefs- one SrA, who I knew to be a helluva worker, and an Airman, who had all of 6 months in the USAF. Oh, and the SFS Commander. My take on it? Myself, the SrA, and the commander probably did the job well enough to have deserved the ride. The Airman, who got her ride almost as part of her inprocessing? Hardly.

I firmly believe that almost any flightline maintainer should have first shot at getting a ride, regardless if they've won Super Hero of the Air Force awards or not. If they've kept their nose (relatively) clean - i.e. no article 15's - and worked the airplane for more than a couple of years, then they deserve a ride. Cops, cooks, and services all work hard too, and get their fair share of dismal working conditions and work hours, and are $hit on enough to make anyone sick- but they don't do their primary work on the airplanes, so for them, it ought to be more of an "award" to get a ride. Bit of a double standard, I know, but thats my take on it.

Meathook wrote:

It is worth everything, then and now Smile

Your welcome!

And here's a great old expression to remember..."If it's in the Air, Maintenance put it there"

Hey I thought it was "It takes a college education to break a jet and a highschool education to fix one" Wink

That too is true Smile

Last edited by Casshan on Jul 10, 2006 - 06:05 AM; edited 2 times in total

[Link pending approval] seem to be stuck on the fact that I work "in finance" even though I told you what career field I work in in the first two sentances of my first post in this [Link pending approval]

See, what people like meathook lack is something called "perspective." Meathook, when was the last time you spent an entire day in the MPF alongside a someone working assignments for 100 different people??? I've been lucky enough in my air force career to have a job where I get a lot of immersion in every [Link pending approval]'ll spend one day out on the line with maintainers, then next out in the desert with EOD blowing stuff up, then next I'll be on midnight ridealongs with the cops (or in a DFP during an exercise.) The assertion made by many that people in support "don't work" or they "have it easy" is a total fallacy. What you see in the five minutes your are in the MPF is not representive of what they do, no more than me taking a five minute drive along a flightline and seeing maintainers on the smoke deck representitve of what THEY do.

And, this isn't about my "dream to [Link pending approval]" I have 6 hours in the back of the D model (because that's part of my job on the [Link pending approval] videography) as soon as we get our new HD camera in, that number will rise significantly.

[Link pending approval] respond to your post, the maintainers seem to find their way to the VIP tent just fine on our [Link pending approval] way,...Hell, I helped a crew chief load a bunch of travel pods on a tank dolly today, that kind of stuff happens all the time on the team (in the "grey" world, not so much since my career field is much, much more segregated from the maintainers)...being a non maintainer, I doubt the guys would want my help borescoping a motor or helping to drop an ADG becasue I would just be in the way.

But, to turn your point around, I can't remember the last time a maintainer offered to help me with my [Link pending approval] is busy in the USAF and on the [Link pending approval] seem to think we "noners" have all kinds of time to enjoy the "benes" of the team, but that's what this whole point I am trying to make is [Link pending approval] don't.

Non-maintainers work just as hard as the maintainers [Link pending approval] may not see it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just because someone isn't working a 12 hour day on a hot (or cold) flightline doesn't mean they are not pulling thier weight (and then some.)

Apparently to some on this board, it does though.

Finally to address the last jab taken at MPF/Finance types about their lack of "customer service" if I worked those jobs and you walked up to my counter with the kinds of attitudes some people on this board display, I'd do everything in my power to make sure I gave you the biggest hassle possible. You wouldn't give that kind of guff to the guy cooking your food at Denny's, so why do you give it to the guy who handles whether your paycheck goes through properly or [Link pending approval] your healthcare, or your [Link pending approval]'s not the brightest thing in the world to do.

Casshan,

It sounds like you're on the Thunderbirds. If that's the case, please go into the museum and look back a few years at the rosters of T-Birds past. "Meathook" is "Thomas Wharton" as he's posted in the past. I've been to the museum in the Thunderbirds' hangar a couple of times and Thomas' name was pointed out to me by another member of this board while we were there. He knows the Team from experience and I think you should take that into consideration.

If you have time in the D model due to your job requiring it, I don't think Meathook or anyone else here would begrudge you that time. Their problem is when the guys and gals who work on the jets day in and day out rarely get to go up in the jets and instead watch others who don't work on them ride in them for some non-essential reason.

Please don't take this as an attack as it was not meant as such. I'm just trying to clarify what appears to be a possible misunderstanding Wink

.

You mean to tell me that everyone does'nt get a ride?

I don't mean to toot my horn, but in the 13+ yrs. I got 3 rides. but I can think of a large number of non-maintainers I would have given them all to.

Guess what I'm trying to say is, if a person is deserving then strap their rear end to the seat a let them jerk on the stick some. It is without a doubt a great way to keep your better people.

I know I am getting into the post late, but I want to throw in my two cents worth.

I personally have approx 65 hrs in the F-16 and I am a crew chief. I had my altitude card while stationed at a couple bases and was responsible for flying into the paint facility to sand and prep jets for paint. So basically, I flew an hour for two weeks worth of work.

I also have had 11 incentive rides while on deployments (Aviano, Incirlik, Torrejon, Zaragoza, Qatar, Isreal, Tunisia, Venezuela ...). Lastly, I was lucky enough to fly backseat from Moody to Isreal and back for a 90 day deployment. I have received flights for winning major awards, but believe me - I have put my time in on the flightline (22 years). My favorite was following Desert Storm in the backseat with Capt. Conan "Conan". Now a Colonel!! The ride was buzzing Army troops pulling out -back into Kuwait and flying over the burning oil rigs, etc. I have a video of it somewhere.

Now, I am on my way to Nellis to be the Superintendent of an F-15E squadron. Hard to believe after so many years on the Viper, but my goal is to ensure we have a good award and incentive program while I am there.

Back in the day, incentive flights were more abundant. Today, due to the pilot RAp requirements and high UTE rates, it is hard to free up a backseat for incentive riders. Normally, during deployments is when you can reap the benefits and we try to give as many as possible to maintainers. It just makes sense!

We all know that everyone in the AF work their butts off - no matter where we work. Today, with the smaller numbers, there is no time to slack off! If you work in finance, you work hard, too. It is just a different type of work. I will be soon (in a few years) hang up my boots and I will remember these GREAt years I have spent in the Air Force and I will salute you all and hope you have as great of time as I have.

Stu

F-16Lifer, I am really glad there are a few more folks out here that can say they too were lucky.

Like you say, it used to be a bit kinder, more "incentive ride" type of Air Force. I know it really did change the minds of many young guys and gals that worked with me after they flew.

There were many times late Thursday evening I was contacted and asked if I wanted to "fly" a crew chief on Fridays schedule, we had a few openings normally. I used to keep a listing of those that deserved it (pre-approved by the squadron commander of course).

It changed allot of lives I know (especially mine) I actually felt I had something to say about it (in a small way I did ) but it was a different Air Force, the commanders had more chances then now, that is for sure.

Glad you flew as much as you did, I know there are more folks that have too...a few friends of mine racked up far more time then me (Joe Chew, John Bieniek and Dane Anderson to name a few)...these guys were flying Crew Chiefs on the T-Birds, they have to have close if not three to four hundred a piece in the D modal alone...easily.

Good luck in future, sounds like we covered much of the very same ground for sure - good on ya

Best of Luck - Meathook

Last edited by MKopack on Mar 15, 2007 - 02:36 PM; edited 1 time in total

F-16Lifer wrote:

My favorite was following Desert Storm in the backseat with Capt. Coan "Conan". Now a Colonel!! The ride was buzzing Army troops pulling out -back into Kuwait and flying over the burning oil rigs, etc. I have a video of it somewhere.

Stu

In 86-0047 - "Balls 47" with the 'bent' LEF canned earlier from a C. The only two-seat Viper with combat missions during Desert Storm! Would love to see the video...

86-0047
Photo by: Mick Bretz (Lurch on F-16.net)

'Conan' Coan and Scott Stutler (Stutler on F-16.net) in front of 87-0242 while deployed to Doha.
Photo via: Scott Stutler

3.7 million pounds of ordinance, 1303 sorties, 42 days. The 'Forgotten 1000'.
Visit the Lucky Devils in the Gulf War at: http://www.lucky-devils.net

Mike

NICE......I'd like to see that video too....rare footage for sure - cool

Forum: Careers & Assignments

Rides in military aircraft - who should get them and why?