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akruse21
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 Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 09:21 AM
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Elite
Joined: Jul 30, 2005
Posts: 739
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| An aircraft flare is punched during startup from an F-15. Flare is sitting by the nose tire of aircraft with aircrew still in. I've always been told to use the halon bottle to spray the flare away from the area if possible. Disagreement between fire dept and maint is that nothing should be done and that the halon might react with the flare. Need some opinions. |
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 Posted: Aug 30, 2008 - 6:39 AM
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Kaasjager.
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 09:54 AM
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Active member
Joined: Jul 26, 2005
Posts: 201
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| Halon just oxygen away right? How would it react with the flare? |
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As a finishing touch God created the Dutch!
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nam11b
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 10:52 AM
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Newbie
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Posts: 16
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| Halon is non-reactive and displaces oxygen that is why we use it for fire protection. Priority should go to protecting the A/C and the crew and if you can use the extinguisher to blow the flare away that is your best option in my opinion. |
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akruse21
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 11:04 AM
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Elite
Joined: Jul 30, 2005
Posts: 739
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| I'm looking more for written guidance. I know that it works and why it works. |
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VarkVet
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
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5.4.3. Halon or water-type fire extinguishers will not be used directly on pyrotechnic or magnesium
fires since they may intensify the fire, increase the risk of explosion, or spread the fire
(2a:10bc dry chemical fire extinguishers can be used.). Halon or water-type fire extinguishers
should only be used to fight secondary fires that result.
DOVER AIR FORCE BASE
INSTRUCTION 91-102 This instruction lists fire fighting TOs they got info from |
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My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline
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Purplehaze
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 26, 2004
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I'm not sure you will find anything written on this. We all know you can't put the flare out and the best option is to move it if possible. Sometimes common sense is the best call, and if it's use the Halon, go for it. I've never heard of Halon not to be used because it would react with the flare, only that it won't put it out. Check with some of the weapons folks and see what there take is on it.
Keep us posted on this one!
Purple |
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ACMIguy
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 06:29 PM
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akruse21 wrote:
An aircraft flare is punched during startup from an F-15. Flare is sitting by the nose tire of aircraft with aircrew still in. I've always been told to use the halon bottle to spray the flare away from the area if possible. Disagreement between fire dept and maint is that nothing should be done and that the halon might react with the flare. Need some opinions.
A flare next to nose tire? Maybe under the main wheels but unlikely at the nose unless the ramp slants down toward the front.
Anyway if it’s next to the nose tire then shut them down and let them climb out. It would be better to replace a tire than have it sucked down the intake. Don’t forget just looking at the thing burning will blind you, so how can you blow it away with Halon and not keep an eye on where it is going? |
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vinnie
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 06:37 PM
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 384
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| EOR, The Kun 91, 2 guys used fire bottle to get flare away from aircraft, started a grass fire but got commendations for it. I would kick the flare away then go to Wilford Hall and get fitted for a new foot. Seriously taxi jet away if at all possible, just don't make the situation worse. |
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akruse21
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 06:45 PM
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Elite
Joined: Jul 30, 2005
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ACMIguy wrote:
akruse21 wrote:
An aircraft flare is punched during startup from an F-15. Flare is sitting by the nose tire of aircraft with aircrew still in. I've always been told to use the halon bottle to spray the flare away from the area if possible. Disagreement between fire dept and maint is that nothing should be done and that the halon might react with the flare. Need some opinions.
A flare next to nose tire? Maybe under the main wheels but unlikely at the nose unless the ramp slants down toward the front.
Anyway if it’s next to the nose tire then shut them down and let them climb out. It would be better to replace a tire than have it sucked down the intake. Don’t forget just looking at the thing burning will blind you, so how can you blow it away with Halon and not keep an eye on where it is going?
I'm not making this stuff up, it happened and happened very recently. Running jet, nose tire, and was blown away. |
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Raptor_DCTR
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 23, 2005
Posts: 444
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| I would tell pilot to shut down but stay in the cockpit till the flare can be extinguished/moved away. Those tires are filled to 300psi with nitrogen. You do not want that to explode next to you. Somewhere on the internet you can find a picture of a guy that was inflating a 15 main gear tire strait from the nitrogen cart with no regulator attached. Over inflated the tire and when in exploded it shreded him to pieces. Better to keep the pilot in the 'pit in case the tire explodes while he's getting out. |
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akruse21
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Posted: Aug 30, 2008 - 08:12 AM
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Joined: Jul 30, 2005
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Raptor_DCTR wrote:
I would tell pilot to shut down but stay in the cockpit till the flare can be extinguished/moved away. Those tires are filled to 300psi with nitrogen. You do not want that to explode next to you. Somewhere on the internet you can find a picture of a guy that was inflating a 15 main gear tire strait from the nitrogen cart with no regulator attached. Over inflated the tire and when in exploded it shreded him to pieces. Better to keep the pilot in the 'pit in case the tire explodes while he's getting out.
You serious?  |
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Raptor_DCTR
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Posted: Aug 30, 2008 - 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jul 23, 2005
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What so you would rather put the pilot's life in danger? Tell him to egress right next to a burning flare by the nose tire, that's using your brain.
Why don't we ask a pilot......Gums, if you read this....you're in the 'pit ready to launch. CC informs you that a flare has ignited and is burning close to the nose gear tie. What would you do? Egress the jet next to a 6000 degree flare burning next to the tire that could explode with deadly force? Or stay in the seat and wait until ground crew can make the scene safe? |
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akruse21
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Posted: Aug 30, 2008 - 10:51 AM
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Elite
Joined: Jul 30, 2005
Posts: 739
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| Sarcasm dude, hence the rolling eyes. I've crewed F-15's for 10 years now. I know what the right thing to do in this situation is. I was asking for written direction if there was any. |
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VarkVet
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Posted: Aug 30, 2008 - 02:11 PM
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Elite
Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 625
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This came out of TRAVISAFBI91-106:
5.4.2. It is acceptable for firefighters to use a water stream to move an ignited flare away from threatened aircraft or facilities. |
_________________
My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline
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akruse21
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Posted: Aug 30, 2008 - 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 30, 2005
Posts: 739
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VarkVet wrote:
This came out of TRAVISAFBI91-106:
5.4.2. It is acceptable for firefighters to use a water stream to move an ignited flare away from threatened aircraft or facilities.
Thanks. I had a discussion with a fire protection guy and he said he was researching from his side because he felt nothing should be done until the FD shows up. I told him sometimes there isn't time to wait 3-7 minutes for them to show up. He said he'll get back to me. |
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