Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Question for everyone. The San Antonio Express-News is doing a story
on why several F4's are in a field here. I attaching several pictures of one of the jets. If you have any suggestions were it came from, let me know and I'll pass it on.

It's either 67-0455 RF-4C-35-MC or 66-7455 F-4D-29-MC. Has a tail code of "AFG" and 3340 TCHTG on the left engine intake. It's been repainted after it was retired because of paint over the formation lights on the tail.

The Express-News was also going to check with AMARC and the AF History office.

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That is clearly a "67" on the vertical stab. As for the tail code? I wouldn't read into what's there, because tail codes are always 2 letters. If it was an RF, it might've been an ex-Bergstrom bird (Austin, TX). However, that wouldn't explain the very Edwards looking paint scheme. Dunno why they went crazy with the Krylon, though.

Where are the other Rhinos, in that "several F-4s"?

How close is this to Lackland-Kelly Annex?

There no where near a any of the bases. There in a field off of Bulverde Road, in the Perrin Beitel/Naco Perrin area of town. The reporter sent me an email and he said found the property owner, so we should know where the jets came from this week. There is also pieces of two other F4's sitting there. One looks like either a F-4C or a F-4D. I also gave the reporter the number to the AF History office and AMARC to see about getting the aircraft history.

67-0455 is indeed a RF-4c, and it's last know unit was the 67th TRW at Bergstrom, so that all makes sense. What does not make sense is that 67-0455 is listed as still being at AMARC. I will be watching this post closely to see what the outcome is.

Perhaps a business bought the Rhinos from AMARC for the scrap metal, and these were the leftovers? It did make sense to me that the top tail was a Bergstrom bird. That was the closest Recon Rhino base to San Antonio. Then again, if they were obtained from AMARC, then it could've just been the luck of the draw that they returned to Texas.

I don't think there have been many if any RF's sold off for scrap yet, most of them have gone to BAE for conversion in to Q models. But there have been literally hundreds of C and D models sold off for scrap to dealers all over, so I'm guessing that the C-D models are just that scrap and there will not be much of a story, but if in fact the tail is from 67-0455 then I will be curious as to why it's still listed on the AMARC database, when it's obviously been sitting in Texas for sometime.

The QRF portion of the F-4 FSAT program ended in 98. Last QRF I saw on the ramp at Tyndall was in 99. It was the bird that landed hard, and shot a strut through the wing. It was a w/o, and they put it across the runway in "The Swamp" storage area. I think a museum later obtained it. There were a handful converted by Tracor, that were returned to the Boneyard. for various reasons. I'm not sure if it was operating expense, a desire to end the QF-4 program by the end of the next decade, or a combination of the two that caused the halting of QRF ops.

To clarify my last post I should have said that most of the RF's that left the boneyard went to the AQRF program, not that most of the RF's in the boneyard had already left. Most of the RF's are still at AMARC very few percentage wise have left.

That might explain the discrepancy with my Dad's old RF tail. I know the number was #249. Not exactly sure what year the jet came off of the line. Saw one site that said it was converted to QRF, and was shot down over the Gulf Range. However, the other day, I saw another site on QF-4E, G, and QRF serials, and their disposition dates and locations. I didn't see a QRF with tail number #249 listed.

Wish I could somehow find out what happened to the jet, and if I could find a pic of it. His jet was actually used as one of the official AF Lithographs back in the late 70s. An excellent pic of his jet on the boom of a -135. Being a fmr RF Crew Dog, and a current -135 Boomer, perhaps you've seen the pic? Fingers Crossed

Stemming off of that, does anyone know who would keep and/or catalogue the AF's Lithograph series from year to year, and how a copy could be obtained?

TC you may be in luck, my source says that RF-4C 71-0249 is being used as an instructional airframe at Kirtland AFB. Who knows what instructional means, but it could be anything from a display piece to an ABDR bird. The QF that I think you first saw was most likely 69-0249 which was originally built as a F-4E, then converted to a F-4G then converted to a QF-4G and then converted to a fireball over the gulf on Sept 1st 1999. I have a friend in the Big Crow program at Kirtland, I will email him and see if he knows the whereabouts on base of that jet.

The San Antonio Express-News did the update story on these two proud war birds yesterday. But for some reason they didn't put the story on their web site and my scanner just took a dump. So I hope to scan the entire story in this weekend.

The short story is they are owned by retired AF Col. Jack Wilson. He flew RF-4's in Nam in what the story called "low and personnel" in 69-70. He has spent $15,000 so far to put one back together. One jet is a piece of 1958 model built by McDonnel Aircraft for testing. He found the 67 fuselage on display at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland. (I'm going to assume that is why APG in on the tail).

To ensure that the plane, still flown by several nations including Iran, doesn't fall into the wrong hands, technicians damage the parts wth deep gouges.

Someone stole two canopies from the 58 model Wilson planned to restore, forcing him to change his plans. He's using the spares from that model to restore the second fuselage.

Thanks Elliboom, I appreciate that. When Pops crewed that bird, it was stationed just up the road from me, at Shaw. They have an RF on display there as a gate guard. Saw a pic of it once online. Don't recall if it had the classic "JO" tailcode, or "SW". The 363rd TRW changed tail codes just before the Vipers first arrived.

Good luck to that guy getting that bird back together. One thing about the Rhino, it was definitely full of quirks. Parts that one would think would be interchangeable between the models often weren't. I like how the story worded the Recon Rhino's mission in 'Nam. The RF-4 crews' official motto was "Alone, Unarmed, and Unafraid". However, the crews liked to say:

"Alone, Unarmed, and Scared $h!tless"

Funny, I was kinda thinking the same thing about when I fly. Laughing

Here is the article link

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/neighb ... 6d0e8.html

Whoever stole those rare 58 canopies needs to be severly punished. Its a shame that the restoration of a prototype Phantom with the low cockpit was ruined.

TC wrote:

Thanks Elliboom, I appreciate that. When Pops crewed that bird, it was stationed just up the road from me, at Shaw. They have an RF on display there as a gate guard. Saw a pic of it once online. Don't recall if it had the classic "JO" tailcode, or "SW". The 363rd TRW changed tail codes just before the Vipers first arrived.

The RF-4 at Shaw has a SW fin flash, the RB-66 has JN and the RF-101 JO.
McEntire ANG has on F-4C (missing aft canopy) setting off from the old ramp and Woodward Field Camden, SC (aka) Camden Airport has an F-4C rotting away by the front gate.
A bright shinny F-4E came in today at Shaw, what a beautiful sight. Very Happy

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

F-4 Phantom in San Antonio field