Forum: F-16 Procedures

Last edited by viper030687 on May 18, 2004 - 02:25 PM; edited 1 time in total

Hi everyone, just want to ask...

What is so dangerous about releasing flares?

Because the RSAF is having exercises in their live firing areas and they had a radio announcement about boats having to clear that space because flares are going to be released.

Anyone? Thanks in advance.

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Active Member Joined: Apr 08, 2004 - 10:40 PM Posts: 203

Well, there pretty damn hot, would not want one falling in my boat. They can also be a fire hazard I guess, if they burn all the way to the ground

Aren't they magnesium? Doesn't that stuff even burn underwater???

Was watching the Springfield, OH Vipers doin' T&Gs years ago and witnessed one dude accidentally pop about a half dozen or so flares as he was applying power to go around. Musta bumped the switch as he pushed the throttle forward. Embarassed

They all landed either on or adjacent to the runway. Consequently all the other airborne flights had to divert to Wright-Patt for safety reasons. Fire trucks scrambled. Wasn't pretty. At the very least I'm sure the driver got a stern talkin' to and a pile o'paperwork to do later.

parrothead wrote:

Aren't they magnesium?

Not sure of the material used. Might be magnesium or a special mix. Whenever I've seen flares popped the fireball usually burns out several seconds after hitting the airstream but maybe the IR sig still stays high enough to draw any threat away. Question

On one of my early NVG updgrade rides I was changing switches in the cockpit for the next tactic I was going to execute. On the old ALE40 controller, I meant to turm chaff from OFF to PGM, and turn flare from SNGL to OFF, All I did was turn flare to PGM which is 8 flares, 3 seconds apart. That's 21 seconds of that crap! Right as I'm going to the notch, I'm inverted about to pull my nose to the ground, and I CMS fwd. Suddenly all I can see is the sillhouette of an F-16 racing right at me, enough to make me flinch. Then another, and another, until the salvo was done. I'm about 1.2Mach and 30 degrees nose low before I regain the SA got expended during the maneuver as well. Naturally, everyone in Korea, Russian, and Japan could see me do it. Switch settings!!! I know a guy name Pyro, won't go further into IDing him, but he lit up the runway at a forward location with all his Chaff/Flare. Wheels up, chaff/flare jett. Not sure but I have a hunch he was flying with a Maverick that day.

Last edited by habu2 on May 18, 2004 - 06:08 PM; edited 1 time in total

Yes they are magnesium. US Apache crews routinely do not train with flares due to the danger of starting ground fires when dispensing flares at the (low) altitudes helos usually fly (especially Apaches).

STBYGAIN mentions another danger of dispensing flares at night...
"HERE I AM"...

US Army has been phasing in new IR flares on their helos (no visible light when deployed), don't know if fixed wing aircraft can/will use these.

(edited - spelling corrections)

Habu2 is correct. Flares do contain magnesium, which is the same stuff that makes napalm such an efficient and vicious weapon, hence now banned. As you all know from your fire distinguishing training a fire needs three elements to burn, heat, oxygen and a combustible material. Magnesium has the "benefit" of creating its own oxygen and lots of heat when it burns, so parrothead is correct when he states that they will burn under water. Not many materials would be able to stay lit when dropped at mach 1.2. Try striking a match out the car window doing 50mph… There probably are chemicals that will extinguish burning magnesium, but I don’t know them. Perhaps some of you do? How do one stop magnesium burning?

Good info here, but nothing about extinguishing Mg fires.

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/ ... g/key.html

I remember some auto racing wheels used to be made from Mg since it was lighter and stronger than Aluminum - but much more expensive. Old videos of Indycars glancing off the walls show the "Mag" wheels igniting from the impact. Yes this is where the term "mag wheel" comes from.

Halon cannot even extinguish a burning flare, for those of you who remember that from the ICT briefing.

O.T.

I just saw this pic on cnn.com about yesterday's F-16 mid-air. It shows flares cooking off in the post-crash fire:

I hope the two firefighters are protected against the hydrazin that is bound to be floating around.

Not too bright. We gave an all day class here to familiarize our local PD/FD/EMS on the hazards of crashed F-16s. They all had the jaw draggin syndrome when done there. They just assumed it was a big car crash. Doh! Carbon, H70, Ammo, live missiles, ejection systems etc aren't in the local Ford.

EriktheF-16462 wrote:

Not too bright. We gave an all day class here to familiarize our local PD/FD/EMS on the hazards of crashed F-16s. They all had the jaw draggin syndrome when done there. They just assumed it was a big car crash. Doh! Carbon, H70, Ammo, live missiles, ejection systems etc aren't in the local Ford.

Snickers at that thought....

(grunts like a gorrila) mmmph fire..... (more grunting) mmmph me stomp fire out..... (more grunting) mmmmpph dam fire hot.....

Does any other aircraft in the US inventory have a hydrazin driven EPU, including the FA-22 or the F-35?

Hypothetically, what should the average civilian do if an F-16 or other military jet crashes near one of us? I mean, how far should you stay back at a minimum? What if the pilot is still alive in the cockpit, but injured and unable to get out by himself? I don't want to try to lift him out of the seat if it's still live - it's probably "hot" with the handle having already been moved a bit. I hope I will never have to deal with this situation, but one never knows. I was tought to "be prepared" in scouts, and I want to help when I see someone in trouble. The situation I've just described will probably never happen (I pray), but I would feel horrible if the pilot was in trouble and I had no idea of how to help him!